2012 payroll

[eddie83]

Bump...

So, now that Hardy is signed, we have Markakis, Reynolds, Gregg, Hardy and BRob signed for next year. That is about 43.5 million for those 5 guys.

Obviously, we have a lot of other guys that will be here...Our payroll is already looking like it is in the 75 million range if Guthrie and Scott are still here next year and we would still likely need to fill first, LF or DH, the pen and at least 1 starters spot via trades or FA.

I know one thing whoever the LF is next year has to be able to catch the ball. Our LF defense is pathetic. Pie's range allows him to get close enough to the ball to dive and miss it.

I think you can find value in LF and DH for not alot of money. I think Reimold can be part of that solution if you can find a Lefty compliment to him. Maybe decline arbitration with Luke and see if he comes back at a cheaper price. A Lance Nix type maybe at DH to go along with Nolan.

[Oriology]

Bump...

So, now that Hardy is signed, we have Markakis, Reynolds, Gregg, Hardy and BRob signed for next year. That is about 43.5 million for those 5 guys.

Obviously, we have a lot of other guys that will be here...Our payroll is already looking like it is in the 75 million range if Guthrie and Scott are still here next year and we would still likely need to fill first, LF or DH, the pen and at least 1 starters spot via trades or FA.

I rescind any optimism I had about extending Hardy...this looks like in order to have a shot at anything worthwhile next year we would need, what, a $125 mil payroll? And that's if the people even wanted to come here. Neither are happening.

[Sports Guy]

1st-???

2nd- BRob: 10 million

SS- Hardy...7.5 million

3rd- Reynolds: 7.83 million

LF- ???

CF- Jones: 6 million*

RF- Nick: 12.35 million

C- Wieters: 2 million*

DH: ????

????

????

Reimold: 425K*

Andino: 550K*

SP:

Guthrie: 7.5 million*

BMat: 500K***

Britton: 400K

Arrieta: 400K

Tillman: 400K****

BB: 400K****

Pen:

Gregg: 5.8 million

JJ: 1.6 million*

Berken: 400K

Koji: Has option..number not listed

*estimated

So, taking out Scott and Pie and adding in Hardy, this is what we are looking at as of right now.

With Koji's option, we are looking at a payroll in the 66-70 millon range.

I think we all agree that it is likely they will add a vet starter, whether Guthrie is dealt or not.

So, we basically need to add a vet starter, 2-3 arms in the pen, 2 bench guys, a LFer, DH and 1st baseman. It is likely that Reimold takes up one of those spots...So, we basically need to add 7 or so players to next year's team and even if they are willing to take the payroll to the level it is now, that means that have about 20M more to spend TOTAL.

If they trade Guthrie, that pushes the number closer to 30..again, if they are willing to go to the level they are at now, a level they say is too high to begin with.

If you dealt Guthrie and JJ or Koji for Wood, Alonso and Boxberger or Cozart, you fill up one extra hole but save yourself about 7.5-8 million dollars.

In that scenario, you still need to add another starting pitcher and you now need to add a LFer and/or a DH...this assumes Scott is non tendered or traded(which is obviously up in the air). Again, Reimold may get one of those roles.

So, what OFer or DH is out there that this team could go out and get who is a clear game changer and one that will fit in the budget?

Alonso could play LF but I have a feeling that won't work out too well.

You could have him and Fielder go back and forth between DH and 1st base but Fielder isn't likely to come here to DH a lot, at least not in the beginning...Plus, the Orioles will never pay him what it will take to get him here.

So, what next? Where do they go?

[Nick The Stick]

I would like to see Reimold hold down the DH role from here going forward. He can be our Kubel-type. Plays the corner OF positions, but is primarily the DH.

[Sports Guy]

I would like to see Reimold hold down the DH role from here going forward. He can be our Kubel-type. Plays the corner OF positions, but is primarily the DH.

Ok, so let's say that we get Alonso and he is the first baseman and we make Reimold the DH.

That leaves us with a hole in LF.

If you essentially add Alonso and Reimold to the exisiting everyday offense of BRob(when he is healthy), Nick, Jones, Wieters, Hardy and Reynolds, what type of offense do you have there? Can that offense contend? What about the defense? How is that?

So, what do you do about LF? A guy like Beltran isn't likely to come here.

You are probably looking at a Cuddyer or Willingham type guy...If you add either of them to the players I listed above, where does that put our offense? Is it a contending offensive and defensive team?

And if you don't think it is, do you see those players leading a contending offense and defense in the long term?

[Sports Guy]

Carlos Pena, JBat and Ortiz.....3 scrap heap guys that have helped 3 teams in our division in a major way over the years.

That is the luck the Orioles need now.

They could have maybe had Alex Gordon and maybe he could have been that player but that ship has sailed.

[JTrea81]

Carlos Pena, JBat and Ortiz.....3 scrap heap guys that have helped 3 teams in our division in a major way over the years.

That is the luck the Orioles need now.

They could have maybe had Alex Gordon and maybe he could have been that player but that ship has sailed.

I believe all of those scrap heap players were signed as free agents after they were released or non-tendered.

Gordon was never a free agent.

[Sports Guy]

I believe all of those scrap heap players were signed as free agents after they were released or non-tendered.

Gordon was never a free agent.

You missed the point.

[JTrea81]

Actually I'll correct myself, as Bautista was traded from the Pirates to the Jays for a PTBNL.

Gordon was never really deemed expendable by the Royals as they always seemed to have him in their plans. We could have got him maybe, but it would have taken a lot to do it, at least more than the Pirates got for Bautista.

[Sports Guy]

Actually I'll correct myself, as Bautista was traded from the Pirates to the Jays for a PTBNL.

Gordon was never really deemed expendable by the Royals as they always seemed to have him in their plans. We could have got him maybe, but it would have taken a lot to do it, at least more than the Pirates got for Bautista.

Again, you are missing the point.

The point is that the Orioles are likely going to have to identify a player that has a huge upside but isn't meeting it.

Gordon had a lot of signs that if he could stay healthy, that he could break out and be the player many thought he would be.

So, because of that, he was an ideal target for the Orioles.

That is the type of guy the Orioles are going to have to get. They are going to have to get lucky, at least if they are going to keep the current team intact..or spend another 40ish million on their payroll, which ain'[t happening.

[waroriole]

Actually I'll correct myself, as Bautista was traded from the Pirates to the Jays for a PTBNL.

Gordon was never really deemed expendable by the Royals as they always seemed to have him in their plans. We could have got him maybe, but it would have taken a lot to do it, at least more than the Pirates got for Bautista.

Exactly, Gordon isn't really comparable to those guys. We do have Guthrie, but as with everything else, we fall short in comparison to what the Jays, Rays and Sox got.

[Nick The Stick]

Again, you are missing the point.

The point is that the Orioles are likely going to have to identify a player that has a huge upside but isn't meeting it.

Gordon had a lot of signs that if he could stay healthy, that he could break out and be the player many thought he would be.

So, because of that, he was an ideal target for the Orioles.

That is the type of guy the Orioles are going to have to get. They are going to have to get lucky, at least if they are going to keep the current team intact..or spend another 40ish million on their payroll, which ain'[t happening.

Maybe Chris Davis is this guy...?

[Sports Guy]

Maybe Chris Davis is this guy...?

Possible but not likely. His lack of walks and in his poor contact rates are an issue. He has power but that's about it.

Don't get me wrong, i would take the chance on him but I don't think he is likely to be much more than Russell Branyan.

[JTrea81]

Possible but not likely. His lack of walks and in his poor contact rates are an issue. He has power but that's about it.

Don't get me wrong, i would take the chance on him but I don't think he is likely to be much more than Russell Branyan.

True but teams thought less about those other players as well which is why their clubs deemed them expendable.

Frankly I don't think we have the people now for scouts to identify these types of players.

That's why we are going to have to stick to "no-brainers" in terms of talent we need to add to our core group.

We can take flyers, but they are likely to bust.

[Sports Guy]

True but teams thought less about those other players as well which is why their clubs deemed them expendable.

Frankly I don't think we have the people now for scouts to identify these types of players.

That's why we are going to have to stick to "no-brainers" in terms of talent we need to add to our core group.

We can take flyers, but they are likely to bust.

There aren't any no brainers outside of Fielder and that isn't happening.