Stephen Drew...perfect example of why you didn't need to rush to sign Hardy

[flashjordnk]

That statement was not in a vacuum. If the O's went into next season with a "Luis Hernandez" type or Blake Davis at SS, the overwehlming majority of the board would be in an uproar no matter what Hardy brought back.

Whatever...half of this board thinks Hernandez is more valuable to the team than Reynolds. Isn't the question do we Hardy for 3 years is more valuable than Skaggs and Goldshmidt for for 5. It's not like Hardy is the last piece of a masterful puzzel. 99% of these boards will be pissed next year no matter what...that doesn't make them right.

[StottyByNature]

I'd rather have a hole at SS and be better positioned to win in a couple years than to have SS filled and be stuck in mediocrity (and mediocrity is being generous). Frankly I'm tired of striving for .500.

This has been the promise for years on end. At some point, you have to say that a player is good and commit to him. A power-hitting, defensively skilled SS is not a bad start. A team can only "rebuild" so many times before trying to get to the status of "built". Now I disagree with such signings as Lee and Vlad, but I think locking up Hardy was a solid move.

[Sports Guy]

Let's also remember that Hardy would have been a rental for 2 1/2 months. Just how many holes do you think we would have filled?

He also would have been worth 2 picks.

[Sports Guy]

And what percentage of the board would be happy with no solution at SS next year? 1% or less?

The hope is that AM could work another deal to bring in Cozart or someone like him.

Someone who ios ready to play the position defensively and not kill us with the bat.

[Sports Guy]

I think one point that we are overlooking is the probability of a player signing an extension later on in the season. Players are more willing to negotiate earlier (see Pujols, Albert) than they are later. The reason, as with any other occupation, is they want to feel valued and that their team is loyal to them. If a team waits to see what is out there, the player can sense that as well and is generally less likely to sign an extension. It's the "if you're looking then I'm looking" dynamic. I'm not saying that is definitely what happened in this case, I just think it's another point to consider.

Do you think hardy signs the extension that he got on July 30?

[flashjordnk]

This has been the promise for years on end. At some point, you have to say that a player is good and commit to him. A power-hitting, defensively skilled SS is not a bad start. A team can only "rebuild" so many times before trying to get to the status of "built". Now I disagree with such signings as Lee and Vlad, but I think locking up Hardy was a solid move.

This misses the point. You do this if you realize there isn't a better package out there for him. He was signed on July 18th. I'm not saying the market has substantially changed but if I'm running the team I'm waiting 13 stinking days to do this, just in case something crazy happens.

There is a package out there that is more valuable to the O's than Hardy is worth. We might not have had a shot at it this. But as soon as he signed the extension any opportunity to do so was gone. The point being made here is not that the O's shouldn't have signed him. It's that they shouldn't have signed him for two more freaking weeks.

[Sports Guy]

That statement was not in a vacuum. If the O's went into next season with a "Luis Hernandez" type or Blake Davis at SS, the overwehlming majority of the board would be in an uproar no matter what Hardy brought back.

Sure..and it would be justified but it would have nothing to do with trading Hardy.

If AM couldn't find someone more competent to play SS than an average fielding, 570 OPS guy than of course people would be upset...and that is totally justifiable.

[Sports Guy]

This misses the point. You do this if you realize there isn't a better package out there for him. He was signed on July 18th. I'm not saying the market has substantially changed but if I'm running the team I'm waiting 13 stinking days to do this, just in case something crazy happens.

There is a package out there that is more valuable to the O's than Hardy is worth. We might not have had a shot at it this. But as soon as he signed the extension any opportunity to do so was gone. The point being made here is not that the O's shouldn't have signed him. It's that they shouldn't have signed him for two more freaking weeks.

Yea, I am amazed that people aren't getting this point.

No one is arguing that the extension was poor or that Hardy sucks or anything like that.

Hell, I was one of the few on here that wanted him when he was dealt to Minnesota...I wanted him this past offseason and, up until early June or so, I wanted him extended.

But his hot June sent his value way up...Couple that with how awful and bleak things look everywhere with the young pitching falling on its face, minors sucking, etc....and it now makes more sense to trade him than sign him....or at least explore a trade and see what his value is.

[waroriole]

I think the expectations for what Hardy would have netted us in a deal are exaggerated by some posters here.

Agreed. He's a two month rental with an injury history who has already been injured this year.

[Sports Guy]

Agreed. He's a two month rental with an injury history who has already been injured this year.

His value was still high.

He was worth 2 picks at the end of the year and his salary wasn't all that high.

No doubt he fetches at least the value of those 2 picks.

And you know what, if he wasn't worth that much, that's when you extend him.

No one has yet to explain what the harm would have been to wait 10-14 more days to have him sign the contract.

[DrungoHazewood]

The valid question is what serves us better in 2 years, Hardy signed at 7M or 2 prospects who may or may not turn into decent ML players?

I think it's legitimate to factor in that the Orioles are abysmal at developing prospects. If the return wasn't a major league ready player or players, you'd have to apply a discount on their future value from what they'd lose coming into the O's system.

At least with Hardy you can have some confidence that he's a known quantity who can get himself out of problems that arise with little organizational help.

[StottyByNature]

Do you think hardy signs the extension that he got on July 30?

It depends on the negotiations. If he and his agent had a timetable and the O's were clearly trying to drag it out, then I think it is less likely that he signed, or it would have taken more money to get him. You just have to balance the risk of losing him (or having to pay more for his services) versus the reward of a possible trade that may never materialize. It certainly could have been worth a gamble, but we don't know what Hardy's people were saying.

[clapdiddy]

I think it's legitimate to factor in that the Orioles are abysmal at developing prospects. If the return wasn't a major league ready player or players, you'd have to apply a discount on their future value from what they'd lose coming into the O's system.

At least with Hardy you can have some confidence that he's a known quantity who can get himself out of problems that arise with little organizational help.

This is a sad, but true statement. I have to say that until we make some changes in scouting and development, this organization is screwed.

[Sports Guy]

It depends on the negotiations. If he and his agent had a timetable and the O's were clearly trying to drag it out, then I think it is less likely that he signed, or it would have taken more money to get him. You just have to balance the risk of losing him (or having to pay more for his services) versus the reward of a possible trade that may never materialize. It certainly could have been worth a gamble, but we don't know what Hardy's people were saying.

I don't buy this and personally, I think you are reaching.

Hardy wanted to be here and wanted stability...Its hard to believe that his desire to be here and his desire to have stability for he and his family would have gone away 10 days later.

Now, perhaps he would have been pissed that the Orioles were trying to deal him and that would have caused him not to sign.

I still find that hard to believe as players understand that this is a business and that teams have to do what is best for the good of the team.

[JERSEYORIOLE]

His value was still high.

He was worth 2 picks at the end of the year and his salary wasn't all that high.

No doubt he fetches at least the value of those 2 picks.

And you know what, if he wasn't worth that much, that's when you extend him.

No one has yet to explain what the harm would have been to wait 10-14 more days to have him sign the contract.

I will agree, probably no harm at all. But I think it is a very small thing to complain about. I guess there is a slim chance, that he changes his mind and his agent talks him into testing the free agent market. I have to ASSUME, that AM, checked out the market, didn't like what he was hearing as a return and went ahead and signed him. Sure he could have waited. But waiting the 10 days or so in hopes that someone got hurt is kind of a long shot.