Stephen Drew...perfect example of why you didn't need to rush to sign Hardy

[Sports Guy]

So you don't think the Orioles did any research on this? That they didn't talk to other teams and other scouts and run through scenarios involving injuries and the kinds of players they could see in a trade?

First of all, you can't predict an injury, so no research was going to be done on that. Secondly, no I don't think they did their due diligence to find out what would be out there. And even if they did, it would fly in the face of what AM likes to do...Wait it out, see if some team gets desperate and pays more. So, if they did do that, AM decided to go away from what he normally does and, he would decide to do it at a poor time. Either way, it would suck.

Your theses is that they dove into muddy water without checking anything about the river. And if you are going to be so obtuse as to attack other posters for what you perceive as blind thought, you really should avoid practicing it yourself.

No, I think they only wanted to extend him and as long as the extension was done in a manner which it made sense to them, that it didn't really matter what they could get in trade.

AM said it himself...It made more sense to extend him than trade him. That was their mindset.

[BaltimoreTerp]

First of all, you can't predict an injury, so no research was going to be done on that. Secondly, no I don't think they did their due diligence to find out what would be out there. And even if they did, it would fly in the face of what AM likes to do...Wait it out, see if some team gets desperate and pays more. So, if they did do that, AM decided to go away from what he normally does and, he would decide to do it at a poor time. Either way, it would suck.

No, I think they only wanted to extend him and as long as the extension was done in a manner which it made sense to them, that it didn't really matter what they could get in trade.

AM said it himself...It made more sense to extend him than trade him. That was their mindset.

First, how can you make the leap that doing due diligence ISN'T what MacPhail does?

Second, Why is that "mindset" wrong? Again, we know your mindset would be to trade first and ask questions later. But just because a team would rather keep players like Hardy doesn't mean that they are wrong.

[ADAMWD_OsRavens]

I said before that there wasn't a chance in hell we could pry Tyler Skaggs or Paul Goldschmidt from the D-Backs. Well, this was our chance.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I said before that there wasn't a chance in hell we could pry Tyler Skaggs or Paul Goldschmidt from the D-Backs. Well, this was our chance.

If they would trade them for Hardy wouldn't they trade them for Reyes?

[Roll Tide]

If they would trade them for Hardy wouldn't they trade them for Reyes?

Well at this point Hardy is no longer a one year rental. Also Hardy got far less than Reyes will com and in free agency. I don't believe fo a second that the guys mentioned are untouchable. Especially if the DBacks have playoff hopes. How desperate are they to win now? Also if the Orioles Could offer Hardy, Guthrie, and Koji how big a difference does that make in their chances of winning the NL or WS? They would be substantial upgrades and Hardys offensive numbers are much better than Drews.

[Malike]

First of all, you can't predict an injury, so no research was going to be done on that. Secondly, no I don't think they did their due diligence to find out what would be out there. And even if they did, it would fly in the face of what AM likes to do...Wait it out, see if some team gets desperate and pays more. So, if they did do that, AM decided to go away from what he normally does and, he would decide to do it at a poor time. Either way, it would suck.

No, I think they only wanted to extend him and as long as the extension was done in a manner which it made sense to them, that it didn't really matter what they could get in trade.

AM said it himself...It made more sense to extend him than trade him. That was their mindset.

I guess the quote from AM that is bolded can be taken in two ways. A. They just decided that they wanted a very good shortstop for the next three years, or B. AM spoke to teams and got an idea of what types of players were going to come back and he determined it was not worth trading him.

We don't know the answer to that, so we're all just getting mad and speculating, I suspect.

[sangar]

I guess the quote from AM that is bolded can be taken in two ways. A. They just decided that they wanted a very good shortstop for the next three years, or B. AM spoke to teams and got an idea of what types of players were going to come back and he determined it was not worth trading him.

We don't know the answer to that, so we're all just getting mad and speculating, I suspect.

I think it's easy to assume AM made inquiries. If there is one thing he isn't, it's stupid. If there is one thing he is good at, it's trading. He wouldn't have blindly stepped into the extension without weighing the options.

[Farmboy]

"we wont negotiate contracts midseason"

How often do we hear this, and really who is fueling that...the agent.

It allows the agent to break down the players performance into half seasons if they use the all-star break like in Hardys case.

Hardy had a great first half and the agent wanted to cash in...had there been packages that knocked Macphail off his feet he would have taken them, but he did wait as long as you would want to in order to feel the current market and the rate at which its trending....its rediculous to plan for injuries among contenders that match up, vs. The other 29 teams

Agent cashed in on a solid first half, we got what feels like a concrete bridge to our golden boy. Had we waited to deadline and no trade occured....youd be betting on a nasty hardy slump, which if it didnt happen, they would certainly decline to talk contract midseason. The end of season time frame is a joke as the agent would want to test open waters with all the teams that actually compete...and their need for a shortstop.

Hindsight is 20/20

[UpstateNYfan]

No and that's the whole problem...Did that point really fly over your head?

The fact that they weren't more open minded about things was and is the issue.

They didn't have to trade him but they could have waited to see what was out there as they got closer to the deadline.

And btw, way to avoid the question.

Imagine being open minded. Ever try it SG? Nearly 100,000 posts and about 99% about what is wrong with the Orioles. You would be miserable if this team ever had a 100 win season. What would you write about? Do you have a NTC?

[waroriole]

So you don't think the Orioles did any research on this? That they didn't talk to other teams and other scouts and run through scenarios involving injuries and the kinds of players they could see in a trade?

Your theses is that they dove into muddy water without checking anything about the river. And if you are going to be so obtuse as to attack other posters for what you perceive as blind thought, you really should avoid practicing it yourself.

Agreed. His obsession with trading Hardy is rivaling that of JTrea and (pick one).

[GoldGlove21]

I would still want to extend him before trading him. With Hardy first you hope to sign him to an extention. If you can not you look to trade him. Drew getting hurt does not change that.

Really? This team is going to finish 30+ games below .500 or real close to it. That is with Hardy on the current roster and playing well. He is not likely to be a part of the next Orioles winner and if he extends in 2015 then he is what 32? I like Hardy and feel like he could be traded in at any of the following 3 seasons trade deadlines, but the unknown variable is supply/demand. Right now Hardy would be "the" guy. We really would have gotten something good back for him IMO. I am talking top-30 prospect and another player with upside good. I actually think we could have landed two top-75 players for him.

When that deal falls in your lap a team like the Orioles should be all over it. They just do not understand how to do things.

[Sports Guy]

Imagine being open minded. Ever try it SG? Nearly 100,000 posts and about 99% about what is wrong with the Orioles. You would be miserable if this team ever had a 100 win season. What would you write about? Do you have a NTC?

So, by wanting them to wait and see what all of their oprtions are, I am NOT being open minded? Really?

[flashjordnk]

Hindsight is 20/20

Meh...do you really think he wouldn't have signed the same long term deal 10 days from now? I get SG's point. If the point is to get better in the long term, we should be critical of AM for what he did. If the point is to build a roster that can win next year and the year after we should be praising him.

With Reyes off the market (that's not something we would have known before either) there were factors that could have behooved the O's. It's not just injuries that can make a difference.

[Sports Guy]

First, how can you make the leap that doing due diligence ISN'T what MacPhail does?

Well, he didn't do it this time.

Second, Why is that "mindset" wrong? Again, we know your mindset would be to trade first and ask questions later. But just because a team would rather keep players like Hardy doesn't mean that they are wrong.

Its wrong when you are a team with a ton of holes. I am not saying the extension was wrong...I am saying that not waiting to see what all your options are is wrong.

And don't tell me that he had all of the options in front of him because things change.

You have brought up Reyes...At this point, the Mets are not trading him. They are hoping they can extend him.

It would have just been Hardy on the market.

[Sports Guy]

I guess the quote from AM that is bolded can be taken in two ways. A. They just decided that they wanted a very good shortstop for the next three years, or B. AM spoke to teams and got an idea of what types of players were going to come back and he determined it was not worth trading him.

We don't know the answer to that, so we're all just getting mad and speculating, I suspect.

The problem with this is AM has basically always held out until the last minute to do something. So, we are ways away from the last minute. In other words, you can not determine that on July 12th(or whatever day he extended), that the best deal you will get is on that date.