Let's assume...

[Sports Guy]

You're splitting hairs again with this. Everybody knows he has no power and most know he's not an OBP guy either. He's not going to be any sort of an offensive force. That's the point. If he plays, we'll have to live with that.

There is no reason to play him though....He isn't good.

We shouldn't settle for him.

[wildcard]

I don't necessarily view wins and losses as a measure of progress. That was pretty much a major fault of the last guy IMO.

I don't know how we could possibly be more embarassed as franchise than we are right now. Playing young guys may be painful, but if we accumuate good young talent, I'd guess by the end of the year we'll see the progress

on the field (though admittedly it may not be in terms of wins and losses).

Hopefully Angelos and the fans will see it this way too and have some patience with it. The quick fixes are pretty much done I think.

I have the hardest time thinking the Peter will accept 100 losses. Remember Trembley is on a one year contract. And Trembley is McPhail's choice as manager.

McPhail knows where he is. He probably knows that Peter would be embarrassed by going backwards in the standings. I think McPhail will act accordingly and put a team on the field that will avoid that kind of situation.

Don't count on seeing Hernandez or Fahey starting at SS if I am right about the way McPhail will act.

[Sports Guy]

We could probably get Aybar cheaply.

I would try to get Lillibridge.

[wildcard]

We could probably get Aybar cheaply.

I would try to get Lillibridge.

Both have a better chance at success then Fahey or Hernandez. McPhail will gauge his ability to get them or someone like them long before he trade Miggy.

[Moose Milligan]

There is no reason to play him though....He isn't good.

We shouldn't settle for him.

I agree with you in the regard that he shouldn't be in any long term plans. We shouldn't settle for him as our SS for the next 5-10 years. Absolutely not.

But I think everyones aware that we're not going to contend next year anyway and if Hernandez is our SS, who cares? And even if he gets a reputation as being a really good glove man, maybe he'll even warrant a smidgen of trade value.

We shouldn't settle for him in the long haul...but for a season or a season and a half, it's whatever.

[os1971]

There is no reason to play him though....He isn't good.

We shouldn't settle for him.

This is a pretty old discussion and if thats what your ultimately going to say, then why even pose the question in the first place?

He'll probably be better than the guy the Jays had playing SS last year. So I'm at least conviced he'll be as good as one ML shortstop, perhaps a couple others. Nobody's convinced me we're going to get somebody marginally better for nothing or next to nothing.

If we get a Hu/Aybar/Cedeno/Wood then fine. I'm all for it. But those guys aren't going to be had for free or next to nothing and I don't think we should waste our bullets over them at this point.

As far as I'm concerned this is like worrying about putting a bandaid on an amputation.

[Hank Scorpio]

I agree with you in the regard that he shouldn't be in any long term plans. We shouldn't settle for him as our SS for the next 5-10 years. Absolutely not.

But I think everyones aware that we're not going to contend next year anyway and if Hernandez is our SS, who cares? And even if he gets a reputation as being a really good glove man, maybe he'll even warrant a smidgen of trade value.

We shouldn't settle for him in the long haul...but for a season or a season and a half, it's whatever.

This is pretty much where I'm at with Hernandez... but only if we are able to score 4 or 5 very talented young players for Bedard & Tejada.

I'm not crazy about Hernandez, but all we need is a stopgap until Rowell is ready.

[RShack]

Who cares if he can hit 250? If it is accompanied by a 280 OBP and 350 slugging, it is meaningless and that is pretty much what you would expect.

I do. If he plays good D and hits a bingle or the occasional double once per game, that's OK-enough for 2008. He's a slap singles hitter, I ain't looking for him to knock it out of the park, I know he's not gonna have a SLG number. What's SLG have to do with a little scampery SS? Nothing, that's what. For who he is, the OBP is way more important than that. Forget his SLG number, and get him to work on getting fewer K's and more BB's. That's where his focus oughta be. He should be copying Wee Willie Keeler and Aparicio, not Cal and Nomar.

[Leitch]

You're splitting hairs again with this. Everybody knows he has no power and most know he's not an OBP guy either. He's not going to be any sort of an offensive force. That's the point. If he plays, we'll have to live with that.

No, he's saying that no team should put up with an empty .250 from their everyday shortstop. Even Mark Belanger's career OBP is .300. It's not about him not being Miguel Tejada with the stick so much as it's about him not being a black hole from which no rally can escape.

[os1971]

No, he's saying that no team should put up with an empty .250 from their everyday shortstop. Even Mark Belanger's career OBP is .300. It's not about him not being Miguel Tejada with the stick so much as it's about him not being a black hole from which no rally can escape.

Well the Jays and Giants have been doing it. Quite frankly, Vizquels defense is more rep at this point.

[wildcard]

This is a pretty old discussion and if thats what your ultimately going to say, then why even pose the question in the first place?

He'll probably be better than the guy the Jays had playing SS last year. So I'm at least conviced he'll be as good as one ML shortstop, perhaps a couple others. Nobody's convinced me we're going to get somebody marginally better for nothing or next to nothing.

If we get a Hu/Aybar/Cedeno/Wood then fine. I'm all for it. But those guys aren't going to be had for free or next to nothing and I don't think we should waste our bullets over them at this point.

As far as I'm concerned this is like worrying about putting a bandaid on an amputation.

You bring up a excellent point. Look at the Jays. Great Pitching but they score 3 less runs then the O's last year. 753. They have Wells, Rios, Thomas, Glaus, etc. But they have a huge hole in the lineup with McDonald 612 OPS and Clayton 648 OPS at SS. That's one of the big reasons their offense was so bad and it effected them at a team.

[TyCobb]

You bring up a excellent point. Look at the Jays. Great Pitching but they score 3 less runs then the O's last year. 753. They have Wells, Rios, Thomas, Glaus, etc. But they have a huge hole in the lineup with McDonald 612 OPS and Clayton 648 OPS at SS. That's one of the big reasons their offense was so bad and it effected them at a team.

A lineup is only as good as their 3 worst hitters.

[Leitch]

Well the Jays and Giants have been doing it. Quite frankly, Vizquels defense is more rep at this point.

Great, good for the Giants and the Jays. Should we be looking to model after these organizations? We don't have to tolerate a SS who kills rallies by the bushel just because we don't have an MVP candidate waiting in the wings, and we shouldn't.

And if we're just looking to fill that hole with somebody - anybody, why not get an offensive Bruntlett type? I mean, since we're going to lose anyway does it really matter what kind of loser we are?

[os1971]

You bring up a excellent point. Look at the Jays. Great Pitching but they score 3 less runs then the O's last year. 753. They have Wells, Rios, Thomas, Glaus, etc. But they have a huge hole in the lineup with McDonald 612 OPS and Clayton 648 OPS at SS. That's one of the big reasons their offense was so bad and it effected them at a team.

The Jays had quite a few guys have large offensive declines last year. Wells, Glaus, Overbay and Johnson not to mention Lind/Zaun. How did Mcdonalds production affect them? They scored plenty of runs in past years with Mcdonald at SS.

Point is there are at least 2 ML starting SS's who may not be as good as LH.

[El Gordo]

McPhail has to know before he trades Miggy who his starting SS for 2008 will be and how he will acquire him. If he doesn't, he does not make the trade.

To my way of thinking that is the job of a GM. He must know how the dominos will fall before he trades away a major piece.

How could he possibly Know that if he hasn't already made the deal. He trades Miggi when and if he can get what he needs. It can't be contingent on weither or not theres a SS replacement targeted or available. There may be several possibilities including dare I say LH but nothing is certain until you make the deal. To me it's a question of priorities. We have abismal production from LF 1B and DH, Traditionally the most offensive positions on a team. We need to take care of these long term while we build around our pitching with defense.