I'm going to make a bold statement. I don't think Andy MacPhail is employed by the Orioles any more.

[sangar]

I don't think it's petty. If you didn't get along with someone, and they passed in this manner, would you feel comfortable making a statement, while the deceased's family knows that you didn't like him?

I would have issued a vanilla statement right away. We aren't the only people asking this question. At some point enough eyebrows will be raised that this will become an issue. His silence on the matter is begining to seem like a statement in itself and I'm not the only one saying this. A simple vanilla statement would never have gone any further than the statement itself while AM's continued silence only draws more attention to something that could have been avoided very easily.

[Ohfan67]

Roch answered a question about MacPhail in a recent blog post. MacPhail was in California this week with his family. His son started college.

[helloharv]

Harv - I certainly sympathize with you on the loss of Flanagan. Your thread on your memories of him was outstanding, and at least somewhat explains the anti-MacPhail agenda you've had from pretty much day 1.

Just remember, while MacPhail will obviously never come near Flanagan status in Oriole lore, there are people who feel just as strongly about him as you do about Flanny. He has tried his best, and unfortunately for all of us, it looks like he's going to come up short. But he's done some good things along the way, and I still maintain that if the pitching staff can stay a little healthier next year, we may see some vast improvement. Let's hope so, at least.

this is where I disagree. I always felt and knew losing crushed Flanny. every damn one of them .... but I honestly don't think Andy cared as much about winning.He seemed to follow the make small steps but make big bucks for Peter. That doesn't cut it for me as a fan.

[sangar]

Nothing. It's not Andy's fault, and he shouldn't feel guilty about it at all. I certainly wouldn't be making public statements pretending to be a friend in mourning.

A simple statement like "the Orioles wish to express their sorrow for this tragic event..." would have sufficed. That is Corporate Politics 101.

[crowmst3k!]

A simple statement like "the Orioles wish to express their sorrow for this tragic event..." would have sufficed. That is Corporate Politics 101.

That statement was made...by Peter Angelos. There's no reason for MacPhail to make a redundant statement.

[glenn__davis]

this is where I disagree. I always felt and knew losing crushed Flanny. every damn one of them .... but I honestly don't think Andy cared as much about winning.He seemed to follow the make small steps but make big bucks for Peter. That doesn't cut it for me as a fan.

It certainly seems as if Flanagan cared about the state of the team as much or more than anyone.

I think it's pretty bold to make assumptions about MacPhail's motivations. He's a baseball man with a baseball legacy. I doubt he would take a job to mind Angelos' finances. But certainly there are others who hold the opinion that you do.

[JTrea81]

this is where I disagree. I always felt and knew losing crushed Flanny. every damn one of them .... but I honestly don't think Andy cared as much about winning.He seemed to follow the make small steps but make big bucks for Peter. That doesn't cut it for me as a fan.

Bingo. MacPhail was an outsider that had no ties to this franchise's fanbase or its history other than his dad. Flanagan was the Orioles and felt the same pain the fanbase did.

MacPhail seemed to care more about his philosophy of team building and his ego more than the fans' deslolation and making sure this team won.

I have no doubt if given the autonomy that Andy has now that Flanny would have made the Orioles winners at the ML level much quicker because he knew how much it meant to the fans to see the team win again.

[BaltimoreTerp]

http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/08/myth-of-pressure.html

It seems to me that people often say knee-jerk things in sports -- that is, stuff that makes no sense if you actually put any thought in it. For instance, people all the time say about a management group or a coaching staff or a group of players something like: "They don't want to win." Isn't this kind of dumb? Who doesn't want to win? They used to say this in Kansas City constantly about former Chiefs GM Carl Peterson. He doesn't want to win -- he just wants to fill up the stadium.

This is obviously illogical. OF COURSE, he wanted to win. AND he wanted to fill up the stadium. AND even if you believe the second was more important to him (unlikely, I might add), well, there is no way to fill up the stadium without winning. Was there anyone out there who really believed that Peterson was sitting in his office 12 to 16 hours a day while thinking: "You know, in the end, I don't really care if we win." But people kept saying it (still say it) out of sheer frustration. It's easier I think -- rather than admit that the world is complicated, that honest effort doesn't always pay off, the good plans fall apart, that luck isn't spread out evenly -- to question a person's heart.

[helloharv]

B-Terp - Do you think Andy did everything in his power to make the O's a better ballclub day in and day out these last 4 years?

[BaltimoreTerp]

B-Terp - Do you think Andy did everything in his power to make the O's a better ballclub day in and day out these last 4 years?

Of course. To think otherwise goes right to his integrity, and to say it knowing the little we know about what actually happens in a major-league front office shows a desire to make a shortcut through a very complicated situation in order to find an easy conclusion.

[The Rick]

Of course. To think otherwise goes right to his integrity, and to say it knowing the little we know about what actually happens in a major-league front office shows a desire to make a shortcut through a very complicated situation in order to find an easy conclusion.

I think a better question is that do you think he did everything that he thought he could do possible to win. That answer is yes, but the answer to Harv's question is no. There was far more he could have done, but he chose not to because he didn't perceive it as appropriate/necessary/realistic/possible. International spending is a classic example of that.

So I believe AM has plenty of integrity, but he's old school and stuck in his ways. He is convicted about his philosophies, and that "in the box" mindset has hurt this team's outlook, IMO.

[sangar]

This is obviously illogical. OF COURSE, he wanted to win. AND he wanted to fill up the stadium.

When initially hired as Angel's manager, Mike Scioscia learned, in his first meeting with ownership, that Disney had no intention of winning a championship. They frankly told him the revenue generated by the post season did not justify the expense of getting there. The people on the field want to win but that is not always ownership's goal.

I don't have a lilnk and I'm too lazy to look but I've read about Mike telling this story many times.

[BaltimoreTerp]

When initially hired as Angel's manager, Mike Scioscia learned, in his first meeting with ownership, that Disney had no intention of winning a championship. They frankly told him the revenue generated by the post season did not justify the expense of getting there. The people on the field want to win but that is not always ownership's goal.

I don't have a lilnk and I'm too lazy to look but I've read about Mike telling this story many times.

I would consider that a different situation, though. That is a corporation running a team like a corporation.

[sangar]

I would consider that a different situation, though. That is a corporation running a team like a corporation.

Yeah, I meant to point this out but was distracted by a cheeseburger.

[scOtt]

Yeah, I meant to point this out but was distracted by a cheeseburger.

A good cheeseburger will do that to you!