Go WVU!!

[Dr. FLK]

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't read ahead and see that Geschinger basically posted the same thing as me.

Only he did it without being condescending and smug.

[ledzepp8]

I meant 2-loss teams.

LSU has 2 OT losses to SEC teams. They have wins over Florida, South Carolina, Auburn. I consider all of those teams better than anyone in the Big East. And, despite playing a real in-conference schedule, they played a legit football team in their out of conference schedule...with a win over VT. If they beat Tenn, I definitely think they are more deserving than WVU.

I think that LSU and the Big 12 champ are more deserving. WVU can't help that their conference stinks. But, to play in a poor conference and schedule nothing but sub-mediocre teams in the games you can control isn't a recipe for a National Champ. But, when you stick with the BCS this is what you get.

I'm not taking anything away from LSU as I think they are a good team. But a #1 team doesn't continually need to beat teams in the last minute, go for it on fourth down with the game on the line, or play the average teams in their conference in OT. This is a team that should have lost at Florida, Auburn, and Alabama. By the way remind again who LSU played OOC, besides an overrated VaTech team from the worst conference in the country? Wasn't it Tulane, Louisiana Tech, and Middle Tenn St?

I agree that the BCS sucks, but why do we never hear from the almighty SEC about it sucking until one of their teams is left out of the championship?

[Dr. FLK]

I'm not taking anything away from LSU as I think they are a good team. But a #1 team doesn't continually need to beat teams in the last minute, go for it on fourth down with the game on the line, or play the average teams in their conference in OT. This is a team that should have lost at Florida, Auburn, and Alabama. By the way remind again who LSU played OOC, besides an overrated VaTech team from the worst conference in the country? Wasn't it Tulane, Louisiana Tech, and Middle Tenn St?

I agree that the BCS sucks, but why do we never hear from the almighty SEC about it sucking until one of their teams is left out of the championship?

I'm no SEC apologist. I'm just more impressed with LSU's resume by a lot. And, there is no way anyone can dispute that VaTech is far superior than anyone WVU played OOC. But, if they win the big game for the championship, they prove me wrong. I think this year is the perfect example of why a small playoff is needed. There are a ton of teams with virtually the same resume, and arguments can be made for or against all of them.

[ledzepp8]

I'm no SEC apologist. I'm just more impressed with LSU's resume by a lot. And, there is no way anyone can dispute that VaTech is far superior than anyone WVU played OOC. But, if they win the big game for the championship, they prove me wrong. I think this year is the perfect example of why a small playoff is needed. There are a ton of teams with virtually the same resume, and arguments can be made for or against all of them.

Oh I definitely agree about a playoff.

[geschinger]

Louisville is down this year. I'm not impressed by UConn or USF. UConn played an even worse schedule than WVU. South Florida did have a nice win over Auburn. Cinci had no big wins. Rutgers played no tough out of conference games. The only mediocre one they played, beat them. The entire conference had a collective 1 win over a ranked out of conference opponent, and that's because none of them play anyone. If you want respect in college football, you get it by playing tough out of conference opponents. The Big East doesn't do that. If they are a good conference, they really should show someone.

The ACC, Big 12, Big 10 and the SEC don't do it either. Why do you have respect for those conferences none of which have more collective wins against ranked opponents? The Big East Champion has beaten the SEC Champion and ACC Champion in consecutive years in bowl matchups. If OOC wins are the criteria to judge conferences, I'd ask what have the other conferences done to show they are in the same class as the BEast?

[Dr. FLK]

The ACC, Big 12, Big 10 and the SEC don't do it either. Why do you have respect for those conferences none of which have more collective wins against ranked opponents? The Big East Champion has beaten the SEC Champion and ACC Champion in consecutive years in bowl matchups. If OOC wins are the criteria to judge conferences, I'd ask what have the other conferences done to show they are in the same class as the BEast?

The SEC has 2 OOC wins over top 10 teams. The PAC10 has 3 OOC wins over ranked teams. And, these teams are scheduling tougher opponents across the board. Everyone plays a majority of their OOC against cupcakes. But, for teams in conferences that are weaker, IMO they should play at least one tough OOC game to prove themselves.

It's obvious you and ledzep are WVU fans, so we'll never agree on this. I won't deny that I personally don't like WVU and never have. And, I'm sure that my dislike for them, as well as my dislike for the BCS, play a part in this. But, I don't think the Big East is very tough, they don't play tough teams week in and week out IMO, and they didn't schedule anyone OOC to prove themselves. To me, they are a "gimmick" offense that makes slower teams look silly. I'd like to see what they can do against a good team with a fast defense. But, regardless of my opinion, they'll be in the Nat'l Championship game and get a chance to prove themselves then.

[Flosman]

The fact that there is no playoff in D1 is beyond stupid. It can not be justified in any way. Yes it would make the bowl a team like this years Maryland even more meaningless than it already is but so what. The money a playoff would generate would make the Bowl system look even dumber.

I think I would start with 24 teams the first year with the top eight seeds getting byes in the first round. Cut the regular season back to 11 games, give the BCS conference champions an automatic bid maybe even an automatic first round bye.

As to the comment saying WVU is not worthy that is just wrong. Would they be worthy during alot of years probably not, but this year they are. No one has stepped up as a dominate team. WVU's offense is as good has any in the country. Are there teams that I think would beat them in a game more often than not ? Yes. But those teams failed to take care of business consistantly on the field and the current system punishes that. No one on here or anywhere else for that matter can name two teams CLEARLY better than WVA. The truth is there is just not much difference this season between: WVU, FL, LSU, O ST, USC, GA, VaTech, Kansas, Mizzou, OK, and the list is probably missing several.

[geschinger]

The SEC has 2 OOC wins over top 10 teams. The PAC10 has 3 OOC wins over ranked teams. And, these teams are scheduling tougher opponents across the board. Everyone plays a majority of their OOC against cupcakes. But, for teams in conferences that are weaker, IMO they should play at least one tough OOC game to prove themselves.

Who am I forgetting? What was the SEC's second win OOC against a ranked team? Virginia Tech is the only one I can think of.

Which conferences do you consider to be weaker - which ones need to play at least one tough OOC game to prove themselves and whic ones are strong enough to get a pass?

It's obvious you and ledzep are WVU fans, so we'll never agree on this. I won't deny that I personally don't like WVU and never have. And, I'm sure that my dislike for them, as well as my dislike for the BCS, play a part in this. But, I don't think the Big East is very tough, they don't play tough teams week in and week out IMO, and they didn't schedule anyone OOC to prove themselves. To me, they are a "gimmick" offense that makes slower teams look silly. I'd like to see what they can do against a good team with a fast defense. But, regardless of my opinion, they'll be in the Nat'l Championship game and get a chance to prove themselves then.

Fair enough. Bias definately is a factor and I've admitted on these boards that I might tend to overrate the conference a bit. But there are systems out there that try to objectively rank the conferences and the Big East fares a lot better than you are giving it credit for. It's a middle of the pack BCS conference by any standard.

As for WVU's spread offense, they did run for 300+ yards against UGA an SEC school that has a fast defense just like they do against just about everyone else.

As for calling their offense a gimmick offense... I don't know that the spread offense can be considered a gimmick offense, lots and lots of teams are copying it and using it successfully. Florida won a National Title last year running the spread. Teams like Oregon and Missouri have had a lot of success running the spread. You'd have a better argument calling WVU's defense a gimmick defense as they do run a rather unique 3-3-5 defense.

[Dr. FLK]

Who am I forgetting? What was the SEC's second win OOC against a ranked team? Virginia Tech is the only one I can think of.

Which conferences do you consider to be weaker - which ones need to play at least one tough OOC game to prove themselves and whic ones are strong enough to get a pass?

Fair enough. Bias definately is a factor and I've admitted on these boards that I might tend to overrate the conference a bit. But there are systems out there that try to objectively rank the conferences and the Big East fares a lot better than you are giving it credit for. It's a middle of the pack BCS conference by any standard.

As for WVU's spread offense, they did run for 300+ yards against UGA an SEC school that has a fast defense just like they do against just about everyone else.

As for calling their offense a gimmick offense... I don't know that the spread offense can be considered a gimmick offense, lots and lots of teams are copying it and using it successfully. Florida won a National Title last year running the spread. Teams like Oregon and Missouri have had a lot of success running the spread. You'd have a better argument calling WVU's defense a gimmick defense as they do run a rather unique 3-3-5 defense.

Let's just get a playoff system and then people like me can shut up. If it shuts me up, it has to be a good idea.

(Kentucky beat L'Ville who was #9...before they fell apart and dropped out of the rankings.)

[mweb]

I'm not taking anything away from LSU as I think they are a good team. But a #1 team doesn't continually need to beat teams in the last minute, go for it on fourth down with the game on the line, or play the average teams in their conference in OT. This is a team that should have lost at Florida, Auburn, and Alabama. By the way remind again who LSU played OOC, besides an overrated VaTech team from the worst conference in the country? Wasn't it Tulane, Louisiana Tech, and Middle Tenn St?

I agree that the BCS sucks, but why do we never hear from the almighty SEC about it sucking until one of their teams is left out of the championship?

I don't think the ACC is the worst conference in the country, and despite what the computers say, I don't see much of a difference between the ACC and the Big East, the first and last team in each conference obviously favors the Big East, I'll give you that, but the rest is even at best for the Big East imo. I'm not sure how VaTech is overrated, and that win by LSU is easily better than any OOC win by a Big East school this year.

I do think WVU should play for the title though, and agree with what you say about LSU other than the VaTech part. In a normal year, WVU's resume wouldn't be good enough, but almost all of the other top teams have screwed up enough for WVU to get their chance.

[geschinger]

Let's just get a playoff system and then people like me can shut up. If it shuts me up, it has to be a good idea.

(Kentucky beat L'Ville who was #9...before they fell apart and dropped out of the rankings.)

Heh, I'm with you about the need for a playoff. If WVU wasn't where they are, I'd of been rooting for the top two teams to lose this week to furhter jumble things up and illustrate the need for a playoff.

I see we're using two different ways of measuring. My numbers may not be accurate for other conferences if we look at where teams were ranked when they played. My numbers were based on the current rankings and only the PAC-10 has more than one out of conference win against a team that is good enough to be ranked at this point in the season.

[sangell2007]

Cindy, you're dead to me.

Dave Wannstedt, for once in your life do something worthwhile and beat the 'eers to a pulp this weekend.

[geschinger]

I don't think the ACC is the worst conference in the country, and despite what the computers say, I don't see much of a difference between the ACC and the Big East, the first and last team in each conference obviously favors the Big East, I'll give you that, but the rest is even at best for the Big East imo. I'm not sure how VaTech is overrated, and that win by LSU is easily better than any OOC win by a Big East school this year.

I do think WVU should play for the title though, and agree with what you say about LSU other than the VaTech part. In a normal year, WVU's resume wouldn't be good enough, but almost all of the other top teams have screwed up enough for WVU to get their chance.

The ACC definately is not the worst conference this year. There shouldn't be much argument this year that the honor belongs to the Big 10. And there really isn't huge difference between any of the conferences. A team or two slips in any of the conference without a replacement rising and it'd be real easy for any of the conferences to slip. Conference rankings are always going to be cyclical. Over the next decade or two there will be times when any of the BCS conferences will be among the highest ranked and times where those same conferences will be among the lowest ranked. About the only constant is the SEC usually being at or near the very top.

[cindyluvsbrady]

Cindy, you're dead to me.

Dave Wannstedt, for once in your life do something worthwhile and beat the 'eers to a pulp this weekend.

Gee Thanks:002_scry:

Why am I not allowed to be happy for WVU fans?

[ledzepp8]

I don't think the ACC is the worst conference in the country, and despite what the computers say, I don't see much of a difference between the ACC and the Big East, the first and last team in each conference obviously favors the Big East, I'll give you that, but the rest is even at best for the Big East imo. I'm not sure how VaTech is overrated, and that win by LSU is easily better than any OOC win by a Big East school this year.

I do think WVU should play for the title though, and agree with what you say about LSU other than the VaTech part. In a normal year, WVU's resume wouldn't be good enough, but almost all of the other top teams have screwed up enough for WVU to get their chance.

Don't get me wrong I live in VaTech country and I think they are a fine team, but when talking about soft schedules they definitely played one. That is why I think they are overrated. Their defense is pretty good, but nothing like their past defenses. Their is pretty much crappy like it usually is, although Glennon is doing surprisingly well this year...They don't run the ball well at all. Now I should have clarified that I meant the ACC was the worst of the BCS conferences, but now I'd probably reconsider and put it above the BIG TEN. Tech has really played no one this year, their only real tests were against LSU and BC.