Saying bye to Matusz?

[oriole from cal]

oh yea.. well.. well, your profile image isn't as good as it usually is

I concur!!:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:

[allstar1579]

Brian needs to scrap his 4 seamer and work with Britton learning the grip on his 2 seamer. Almost reminds me of Eveland, but Matusz has much better secondary stuff.

[SrMeowMeow]

So you don't think that it's possible that there may be things that coaches have seen regarding his health, fitness, performance and fit for this organization that would make this a reasonable decision. "Unless there is some mitigating factor that we are unaware of that makes it desirable to get rid of Matusz regardless of what we can get in return (ie - his personality is negatively impacting the other players or the clubhouse chemistry, etc), there is no valid reason to give up on him at this point." I would suggest that there are many more things that we are unawre of in this instance than aware. I'm sure you could come up with a number of SP with similar numbers who had a disasterous season and went on to be quickly out of the game. That is no more an indication that the same will happen to Matusz, than it is that he will go on to have Halladay's career.

Great. So, if the O's keep him, we'll know that he was worth keeping. And if they trade him, we'll know that we should have traded him. Why even bother performing analysis, since the O's have more information and therefore will always be correct?

[El Gordo]

Great. So, if the O's keep him, we'll know that he was worth keeping. And if they trade him, we'll know that we should have traded him. Why even bother performing analysis, since the O's have more information and therefore will always be correct?

Good arguments can be made based on what we know (numbers) for keeping him, or trading him for a known commodity like Floyd. The difference maker is what they know that we don't. It is not a catigorical position that he should be kept as some seem to be suggesting.

[Prayin4Reign]

Sorry...maybe I was a little harsh, but that's the same thing folks were doing over on the Sun's boards and it was quite annoying when the dust settled and those "what I heard" statements were never true.

Hmmm...I was over at Sunspot for probably 8 years lurking/posting and hardly ever came across "insider" stuff except for Harv....nor did I come across too much stuff (heresay) like the OP mentioned. Not sure what you are referring to.

[SrMeowMeow]

Good arguments can be made based on what we know (numbers) for keeping him, or trading him for a known commodity like Floyd. The difference maker is what they know that we don't. It is not a catigorical position that he should be kept as some seem to be suggesting.

I don't think anyone's saying he should be untouchable, just that trading him as an overreaction to a poor year would be awful.

[weams]

I concur!!:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:

Rodgers!!!

[El Gordo]

I don't think anyone's saying he should be untouchable, just that trading him as an overreaction to a poor year would be awful.

I was responding to this categorical pronouncement: "there is no valid reason to give up on him at this point." It is not a question of his being untouchable, it is a question of his percieved value vs the value of the potential return.

[JTrea81]

I was responding to this cateagorical pronouncement: "there is no valid reason to give up on him at this point." It is not a question of his being untouchable, it is a question of his percieved value vs the value of the potential return.

I wouldn't give up on the guy, but unless he shows me otherwise in ST or is traded, he's got a ticket punched for Norfolk.

No way do I reward him or send the message that you can do that poorly and still have a ML spot when you haven't proven yourself at the ML level. That's exactly how you feed a culture of losing.

I don't care how high a draft pick the player was. It's about putting the best team on the field to win. If Matusz is not one of the best 25, he doesn't deserve the roster spot.

[SteveO]

If you trade him and he becomes 3/4 of what we all thought he would be then you look stupid. If you hold onto him and he continues to falter....again look stupid. I think at this point you have to make sure you have the right people evaluate the situation and do their best to determine if the velocity will indeed return and IF he has the mindset of a guy who is a TOR type pitcher. While I get the comparisons to the early struggles of Halladay, Matusz does not nor ever has had that type of velocity and Halladay never reported to camp in the kind of shape Matusz did..... that speaks to professionalism and mindset. Those two things might not buy you a cup of coffee but they can take a good pitcher and make him really good or a great pitcher an elite one.

If I am the Orioles and believe this was conditioning related, as long as Matusz is showing the signs of recognizing the errors of his ways and showing signs of making sure that its not going to be an ongoing issue, then maybe I hold on to him. If there is doubt then maybe you package him and get as much as possible.

[DrungoHazewood]

The whole Matusz vs. Halladay stats thing is great and all, but I'm sure if I really wanted to spend the time doing it I could find about 100 guys that were selling used cars within 3 years of putting up those kinds of numbers.

It wouldn't take three minutes with a bb-ref subscription. If you take the 100 highest ERAs in MLB history for 30 or 40 IP, and a very high percentage of them ended up as nothing afterwards. But not all.

[BarclaySouthway]

Ideally he reports to camp in great shape and has his old, more deceptive delivery working again and he can get people out. You have to believe the prognosis is not good, however. Even with his good fastball, BM had to locate and mix his pitches well to be successful. That 3-4 mph on the fastball is huge for Brian. He's got to get all that back --conditioning, delivery, control, pitch selection, and a little more hop on the fastball. Seems like a tall order. I hope he can put it together; he's still young. (His most similar comp. by age is Arthur Rhodes. Others are Jeff Francis and Brian Anderson) However, some of his career comps. are Rick Krivda, Eric Bell, and Dana Eveland.

So this whole selling low debate boils down to which of those two categories you think Matusz will wind up in. But the Orioles won't really know what he's got until Spring Training. Tough decision. I'd be inclined to hold him rather than deal him straight up for another team's reclamation project (especially a position player), but I wouldn't cry if he was part of a package that brought us something good.

[El Gordo]

Ideally he reports to camp in great shape and has his old, more deceptive delivery working again and he can get people out. You have to believe the prognosis is not good, however. Even with his good fastball, BM had to locate and mix his pitches well to be successful. That 3-4 mph on the fastball is huge for Brian. He's got to get all that back --conditioning, delivery, control, pitch selection, and a little more hop on the fastball. Seems like a tall order. I hope he can put it together; he's still young. (His most similar comp. by age is Arthur Rhodes. Others are Jeff Francis and Brian Anderson) However, some of his career comps. are Rick Krivda, Eric Bell, and Dana Eveland.

So this whole selling low debate boils down to which of those two categories you think Matusz will wind up in. But the Orioles won't really know what he's got until Spring Training. Tough decision. I'd be inclined to hold him rather than deal him straight up for another team's reclamation project (especially a position player), but I wouldn't cry if he was part of a package that brought us something good.

I think Matusz will be a successful ML SP, but not as long as Buck is his manager and Adair is his pitching coach. I am reminded of how the Cubs screwed up CPatt. The guy had poor pitch recognition and plate discipline but they tried to force him into becoming a lead off hitter. It ruined him. Supposed the O's had tried to do that with AJ? Sometimes it's best to leave well enough alone, but that is something Buck can never do.

[Guest rochester]

Maybe it's me but comparing Matusz to Halladay is not something I would use to determine whether I would trade him or not... I think we all could agree that Halladay is an outlier (?)

[fish113d]

Wouldn't he still need cleats in AAA?

Wait, you didn't know that they have a "cleatless shoes" rule in AAA, Gordo?