HHP: Can this organization even pretend it wants to win?

[24fps]

Sure there is.

He knows, like every single one of us, that it doesn't matter what moves are made right now. The only thing that will decide the outcome of the 2012 season for the Orioles are Britton, Arrieta, Matusz, and Tillman (and now adding Wada and Chen). They could go "all in" or trade everyone of value, but those pitchers are what will be the difference whether it is 60 wins or 80 wins. They are the direction of the club.

So he's giving them, as a group, one more shot. If they struggle the team will likely be disassembled at the deadline and early next offseason. If they perform well the team might look to add pieces next offseason. Either way, it all depends on what those guys do between a week from now and the end of July, and that will determine the direction.

There you go, ruining the pity party again.

Good post.

[ccbird]

I hope you're right but I don't know. I doubt much happens at the deadline anyway.

Yeah, I call bull. This team is not going to be disassembled at the deadline no matter how bad they are playing.

[WORST OWNER]

Yeah, I call bull. This team is not going to be disassembled at the deadline no matter how bad they are playing.

I thought we were already disassembled!

[DrungoHazewood]

Most people thought we were having a terrible season before yesterday.

If you go by the poll in the thread "If we're finished.." then you're wrong.

Everyone likes to think they're in the majority. Even if they're a Lyndon LaRouche devotee.

[NewMarketSean]

Sure there is.

He knows, like every single one of us, that it doesn't matter what moves are made right now. The only thing that will decide the outcome of the 2012 season for the Orioles are Britton, Arrieta, Matusz, and Tillman (and now adding Wada and Chen). They could go "all in" or trade everyone of value, but those pitchers are what will be the difference whether it is 60 wins or 80 wins. They are the direction of the club.

So he's giving them, as a group, one more shot. If they struggle the team will likely be disassembled at the deadline and early next offseason. If they perform well the team might look to add pieces next offseason. Either way, it all depends on what those guys do between a week from now and the end of July, and that will determine the direction.

He's basically going all in with a pair of 2's.

There is no contingency plan if that group of pitchers don't succeed and it's looking like, as a group, they won't. Sure he's added some filler to round out the rotation if Britton, Matusz and Arrieta don't pan out, but that doesn't mean anything beyond 2012.

[Sports Guy]

Sure there is.

He knows, like every single one of us, that it doesn't matter what moves are made right now. The only thing that will decide the outcome of the 2012 season for the Orioles are Britton, Arrieta, Matusz, and Tillman (and now adding Wada and Chen). They could go "all in" or trade everyone of value, but those pitchers are what will be the difference whether it is 60 wins or 80 wins. They are the direction of the club.

So he's giving them, as a group, one more shot. If they struggle the team will likely be disassembled at the deadline and early next offseason. If they perform well the team might look to add pieces next offseason. Either way, it all depends on what those guys do between a week from now and the end of July, and that will determine the direction.

Lots of assumptions in this post.

End of the day, resting the fate of the organization on a few arms is awful.

They have very little talent in the minors and are probably the worst team in the AL.

They aren't making long term moves this offseason, in terms of player acquisitions. They have done well with off the field stuff but with little to no talent, those moves only mean so much.

There is no direction. They think they are a 500ish team...and they aren't. They are riding the fence again. Its the same thing they have been doing for years and you would have to be a fool to think that is a smart way to go about things.

[melankfo]

I'm at a loss for words. For 15 years they've done everything exactly the wrong way with nary an apology, but rather a continued stream of metaphorical middle fingers to every Orioles fan out there. Sure, there was 2004 when they made a valiant attempt at putting a winner together, but when it didn't work right away, they cleaned house and haven't come close to trying again since then.

Sure you can say a bunch of new faces in the front office should improve, but we've said that about new faces in the front office that quickly got old before. Now you're trading good players for filler, and not exactly denying that you might be interested in a twice-busted PED user already a 7pm shadow of what he once was. After all, it'd be better to get him than to try to hold on to an All-Star CF you can build around, but apparently choose not to. Another Pittsburgh Pirates-like trade is certain to come with him, because now we're focusing on a bunch of bush leaguers who may, MAY, even make the big leagues. But that's our only hope, apparently. Good luck, Adam Jones, where ever you end up this year or next. And I'm sure the Yankees are already eying up Matt Wieters. After all, he surely will be next after Jones, right?

In the meantime, other additions to the club have all been minor cosmetic enhancements that don't really do anything to address any long-term needs, save for the slight chance that one of the players has a Melvin Mora-like epiphany and surprises everyone, even the front office who acquired them.

And while all that goes on, a frustrated, disenchanted, and ever-increasingly apathetic fan base loses more and more interest. I'm 99% certain this organization, at least at the top, has zero interest in winning. They simply don't care. They have their MASN money coming in, they have a few thousand fans going to the park every night, and more when the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies are in town. They are content and simply do not care. Arrogantly, apathetic, even. Heck, I'm wondering if they intentionally don't want to win, but just play us for suckers.

The rest of the front office has demonstrated little competency and ability to actually achieve the kind of success fans have a hard time even dreaming of being able to strive for anymore. Dan Duquette, saying this team will win more games than it loses, is out of his damn mind. Either he's flat out patronizing us, or he has no clue. Both are insulting. He was put in a no-win situation, hasn't seemingly done much to make it a winning situation, and will not get even a single, tiny bit of help from the top of the organization to change that.

Spring training hasn't even started yet, and many of you are already looking ahead to July when NFL training camps begin. A little closer to me is a team that was traveling at a racer's pace down the same path, but has since turned it around. They've invested in players at all levels and are putting forth an honest effort to win. And you know what? There's buzz. And many of my friends ask when I'm jumping on the bandwagon. I won't go that far, and I'll always love the O's, but I'm damn certain I'll be going to more games in Southeast DC than I do at the Inner Harbor. It'll be fascinating to watch an organization that cares.

In a Valentines Day like parlance, the Orioles are the girl who you want to fall in love with and think can be really great for you. But she won't bother putting in any effort and in fact ignores you. The Nationals are the new girl trying to catch your attention, and you hold her at arms length because you're still focused on the girl you love. After a while, a decision will have to be made though. Do you continue to pine for the girl you love, and who seemingly will never love you back? Or do you wake up one day and see that you've got a really great thing in front of you, and that it's time to move on?

Many fans have already decided to move on in that relationship. How many more will do the same? And how many times will it have to happen before someone at 333 West Camden Street actually cares enough to do something about it?

That's where I am -- about to jump. I'm a lot closer to Camden Yards than Nationals Park, but for television games I began the switch to the Nationals last summer, and I expect to make the attendance switch this year. It's too far for me to go to the Nationals games often, but I can't imagine going to Camden Yards this year unless someone invites me on a free ticket. Like you, I would prefer to support the Orioles, my local team, but at this point the differential -- esp in EFFORT -- is just too great.

[24fps]

Lots of assumptions in this post.

End of the day, resting the fate of the organization on a few arms is awful.

They have very little talent in the minors and are probably the worst team in the AL.

They aren't making long term moves this offseason, in terms of player acquisitions. They have done well with off the field stuff but with little to no talent, those moves only mean so much.

There is no direction. They think they are a 500ish team...and they aren't. They are riding the fence again. Its the same thing they have been doing for years and you would have to be a fool to think that is a smart way to go about things.

It looks to me like there's a very clear direction developing, although he and the organization hasn't arrived there yet.

The fact that a lot of assumptions are being made at the moment is inescapable. Here are some of mine: Duquette believes that the organization he inherited was so incompetent that there was no basis to accurately evaluate the talent of those players considered to be the "core". That would certainly be one explanation for the vigor in which he's rebuilt the FO. Here's another: The investment already made in the "cavalry" simply can't be ignored from a business standpoint. Further on-field performance coupled with the evaluation of people he trusts has to guide any long-term commitment one way or the other. Correct player retention is indistinguishable from correct player acquisition and often more cost effective.

I could go on, but I won't beyond mentioning one further thought - assumption if you will. I assume that he's telling the truth when he says the budget isn't going up this year. I also assume he's had his eyes opened over the last three months about the opinion of the value of the Orioles' assets elsewhere around MLB. These factors and others have reined in any swashbuckling instincts he might have harbored on the day he took the job and rightly so.

To assert that he's riding the fence and maintaining the status quo mischaracterizes the situation IMO. If nothing else, it's premature to draw that conclusion. Duquette has demonstrated both recently and historically that he's comfortable in a dynamic environment. What he should be doing over the next several months is narrowing the decision matrix to where the choices are few and clearly defined. I think that's a more plausible explanation of what he's doing than "resting the fate of the organization on a few arms".

[BaltimoreTerp]

He's basically going all in with a pair of 2's.

There is no contingency plan if that group of pitchers don't succeed and it's looking like, as a group, they won't. Sure he's added some filler to round out the rotation if Britton, Matusz and Arrieta don't pan out, but that doesn't mean anything beyond 2012.

Of course there is a contingency plan--start over.

I think it's more like going all-in with a pair of face cards and nothing in the three communal cards, hoping for a three-of-a-kind or a full house out of the turn and river cards.

(Damn, it has been a while since I thought about poker...)

It doesn't mean anything beyond 2012 because nothing means anything beyond 2012. Those guys swim and we build around them and Wieters and hopefully Jones. They sink and things start over.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Lots of assumptions in this post.

Well, you're assuming there is no direction. All of this is assumption and opinion because of the little we have to go on.

End of the day, resting the fate of the organization on a few arms is awful.

Maybe, but the only chance the team has to be competitive in the near future is through those arms.

They have very little talent in the minors and are probably the worst team in the AL.

They aren't making long term moves this offseason, in terms of player acquisitions. They have done well with off the field stuff but with little to no talent, those moves only mean so much.

There is no direction. They think they are a 500ish team...and they aren't. They are riding the fence again. Its the same thing they have been doing for years and you would have to be a fool to think that is a smart way to go about things.

Like I said, you are making just as many assumptions as anyone else.

I never said it was smart. I said that this is what it looks like to me, and it looks a lot like a direction: sink or swim with the young pitchers, and see how things look in October.

[Moose Milligan]

I never said it was smart.

Well, no one else said it either, looks like you're safe.

[NewMarketSean]

Well, you're assuming there is no direction. All of this is assumption and opinion because of the little we have to go on.

Maybe, but the only chance the team has to be competitive in the near future is through those arms.

Like I said, you are making just as many assumptions as anyone else.

I never said it was smart. I said that this is what it looks like to me, and it looks a lot like a direction: sink or swim with the young pitchers, and see how things look in October.

You mean July. If the arms don't do anything by then I think you're going to see this MLB team absolutely gutted and for good reason.