Mussina elected to Orioles Hall of Fame! (Also Dauer and Youse) w/Mussina reaction

[Lucky Jim]

I seriously doubt that any player who was going to test the free agent waters would not consider the Yankees merely because they were a "rival" of his prior team. I don't think professional athletes really get into "rivalries" the way fans do. At least, they didn't by 2000 when Mussina was a free agent. Maybe in the 1970's it would have mattered a little.

By the time the O's anted up, the Yankees were offering $10 mm more. So, I don't know that I'd say that Mussina turned down the O's offer out of "spite." I do think that the way Angelos handled the negotiations offended Mussina, and should have, and hence he was in no mood to cut Angelos any breaks. You may recall that he was extremely unhappy with the July 2000 fire sale of several of his teammates. Ask B.J. Surhoff how loyal the Orioles were to him.

$10m more, some deferred, no interest.

[Frobby]

Very classy remarks by Mussina there. I hope they will allow some of the people who are still angry that he left to just appreciate the 10 great years we had with Moose as our ace.

[Tony-OH]

I seriously doubt that any player who was going to test the free agent waters would not consider the Yankees merely because they were a "rival" of his prior team. I don't think professional athletes really get into "rivalries" the way fans do. At least, they didn't by 2000 when Mussina was a free agent. Maybe in the 1970's it would have mattered a little.

By the time the O's anted up, the Yankees were offering $10 mm more. So, I don't know that I'd say that Mussina turned down the O's offer out of "spite." I do think that the way Angelos handled the negotiations offended Mussina, and should have, and hence he was in no mood to cut Angelos any breaks. You may recall that he was extremely unhappy with the July 2000 fire sale of several of his teammates. Ask B.J. Surhoff how loyal the Orioles were to him.

They brought him back didn't they? I'm not going to get into this with you anymore because you are Mu$$ina lover and you apparently have no problems with what he did and who he left us for. That's your right. When I see you, I'll buy you a Yankees Mu$$ina jersey to hang up in your den.

[ccbird]

He deserves it and I'm happy. Business is business. He gave this organization 10 years and decided at 32 years old to take not only the best offer on the table but the one that gave him the best chance of winning a ring and winning the most games to potentially get into the HOF. Consider that if he stays an Oriole he probably ends up with 30+ less wins and a lower winning %. He's a borderline HOF at this point, if he remained an Oriole there is almost no way he would have got in the HOF. Don't know why that bothers people so much. He did what was right for him at the time. He saw the arrow pointing down for the O's and made the right business decision. Over 10 years later, O's fans need to let this go and cheer the 2nd best O's pitcher of all time.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Deserving or not, I want no Yankees in the O's Hall of Fame. They are scum, all of them.

So you're saying that Blair, Dempsey, Tippy, and Elrod should all be kicked out of the O's Hall?

[ConnO'sFan]

Mussina was asked if he considered himself an Oriole or a Yankee.

"My career was almost split evenly with Baltimore and New York. I consider myself both. To start in one place and have one organization give you a chance, to show what you think you can do, then leave and go someplace and have another organization treat you like you've been there your whole career. You have to give both sides a lot of credit. I can't say that I'm one or the other, I have to say that I'm both," Mussina said.

This is the difference between players and fans, we (the fans) are rarely BOTH.

[OrioleMagic]

I seriously doubt that any player who was going to test the free agent waters would not consider the Yankees merely because they were a "rival" of his prior team. I don't think professional athletes really get into "rivalries" the way fans do. At least, they didn't by 2000 when Mussina was a free agent. Maybe in the 1970's it would have mattered a little.

By the time the O's anted up, the Yankees were offering $10 mm more. So, I don't know that I'd say that Mussina turned down the O's offer out of "spite." I do think that the way Angelos handled the negotiations offended Mussina, and should have, and hence he was in no mood to cut Angelos any breaks. You may recall that he was extremely unhappy with the July 2000 fire sale of several of his teammates. Ask B.J. Surhoff how loyal the Orioles were to him.

Well said.

Agreed. But which came first, the Thryft fire sale or the Moose debacle? I know they were both about the same time, but I don't remember which came first. If it was the fire sale, it adds extra fuel to Moose not wanting to stay. If was Moose leaving and THEN the Orioles cut bait with everyone, then I absolutely 100% agree that Moose leaving was the major blow to this team becoming what it is today.

IIRC, what came first was the O's jerking Mussina around regarding his extension.

[Orioles West]

Regardless of finally getting within TEN MILLION dollars of the New York offer, Angelos clearly low balled his best pitcher. I was there for the everyday negotiations and couldn't ever understand why he didn't try to keep Moose in the building. It was the first clear sign to me that despite his early talk of building championship teams in Baltimore, that instead, he was all about making money instead. It is a business, making money is part of it, but as a competitive human being, watching him piss away a great franchise to line his pockets instead of trying to win is a concept I cannot wrap my head around.

Glad to see Mike get the honor, always an Oriole to me.

-Don

[waroriole]

Regardless of finally getting within TEN MILLION dollars of the New York offer, Angelos clearly low balled his best pitcher. I was there for the everyday negotiations and couldn't ever understand why he didn't try to keep Moose in the building. It was the first clear sign to me that despite his early talk of building championship teams in Baltimore, that instead, he was all about making money instead. It is a business, making money is part of it, but as a competitive human being, watching him piss away a great franchise to line his pockets instead of trying to win is a concept I cannot wrap my head around.

Glad to see Mike get the honor, always an Oriole to me.

-Don

Agreed, the blame goes to Angelos for Moose being a MFY.

[OsLuvrInKy]

To be accurate, it was a 6yr/88.5m contract from the Yanks. I think the O's offered:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2000-12-01/news/0012010026_1_mussina-orioles-roger-clemens

Thanks for posting the link Jim. Refreshed my memory quite well and makes me HATE King Peter all the more.

And yes Moose deserves to be in the O's Hall of Fame. He EARNED it!

[Lucky Jim]

Regardless of finally getting within TEN MILLION dollars of the New York offer, Angelos clearly low balled his best pitcher. I was there for the everyday negotiations and couldn't ever understand why he didn't try to keep Moose in the building. It was the first clear sign to me that despite his early talk of building championship teams in Baltimore, that instead, he was all about making money instead. It is a business, making money is part of it, but as a competitive human being, watching him piss away a great franchise to line his pockets instead of trying to win is a concept I cannot wrap my head around.

Glad to see Mike get the honor, always an Oriole to me.

-Don

Where was "there" exactly?

[Gofannon]

Keep this crap in one thread. Have your Mu$$ina party in one thread and leave the rest of the board Yankees free. Thanks,

While I di$agree with you on thi$ thread, Tony, I am impre$$ed with your ability to keep u$ing dollar $ign$ when typing Mu$$ina. That'$ time-con$uming.

[DrungoHazewood]

When Mussina left I was as bitter as I've ever been as an Orioles fan. I put a column I think Boswell wrote about the situation, calling him a traitor, on the fridge and kept it there a good, long time. I said I'd never, ever forgive him.

But you know what? The last 12 years of the Baltimore Orioles can make you reconsider almost anything. I still am not happy Mussina left. But I'm finding it hard to stir up any kind of anger towards anyone who didn't or doesn't want to play for the post-1998 Peter Angelos Orioles.

Mussina didn't leave a team that was begging him to stay. He didn't leave a team that was on the cusp of glory. He didn't cause the team's freefall.

He left a team that had just traded away BJ Surhoff, who had deep roots in the community and (IIRC) was a good friend of Mussina's. Traded him for almost nothing. Cal was on the verge of retirement, as was Brady. They were clearly in a rebuild, run by a senile old man in Syd Thrift. They'd gone from 98 wins in '97 to three straight losing and declining years. He was leaving a 74-88 team with an average age over 32 and no farm system to speak of. Angelos drug out extension talks forever, trying his level best to get as team-friendly a deal as possible and using Mussina's status as a homegrown star as leverage against him. Mussina was coming off a year where he was 6th in the Cy Young voting, 5.5 wins over replacement, but finished 11-15 because of the crappy team around him.

In retrospect, why would anyone in their right mind resign with the 2001 Baltimore Orioles? Yes, I'd be happier if Mussina had signed with the Brewer or the Indians or something. But the Yanks offered the most money, and he'd have been nuts to resign with the Orioles.

I'm perfectly fine with him going into the O's HOF. You're not a traitor if you pull chocks when your country is disintegrating around you because of tyrannical mismanagement by a two-bit dictator.

[Lucky Jim]

As to the results, all I can say is I'm surprised at the lopsidedness.

[OFFNY]

I have no doubt he's a first class guy. In fact' date=' he's often the one to justify/defend/sympathize with the O's during Yank broadcasts.[/i'] But, SAME thing goes for me...I'd feel

better if he were on the broadcast crew of ANY other team. Sitting beside Michael K is a kick in the groin.

I've been watching Singleton on YES for a decade (when I'm not at the game itself in either Yankee Stadium or OPACY), and I have the opposite impression. Even on the rare occasions when the Orioles are playing well and beating the Yankees, Singleton often shows a disdain and a hatred for the team. If one didn't know, they might think that he played for the Yankees (ala Phil Rizzuto), and not the Orioles. Singleton may be a very nice person and very gracious everywhere else, but when he is on YES, he is clearly not an Oriole sympathizer.