Gregg vs. Most of the rest of O's pen

[Todd-O]

I can see it now. Game 7 of the ALCS. 15th inning. Orioles have used all of their pitchers except one.... The gate open and out trots Kevin Gregg.

I honestly think I'd have to turn the tv off or leave my seat. I'm not sure if I could take the stress of watching it unfold...

LOL

[OFFNY]

Given the nature of free agency, where you're paid big bucks for your peak performance during your decline years, I'd be willing to bet many teams have a highest-paid something-or-other who's vastly underperforming. Pick a random team... the Giants... their highest paid player is Barry Zito, who is currently pitching well but has provided them 4 wins for $80M over his contract so far. Their highest-paid position player is Aubrey Huff, who fields like Ty Wigginton and has had a sub-700 OPS three of the last four years (including April '12 as a "year").

That may be true, but the Giants haven't given up hope completely on Zito, or even Huff ...... although he was just put on the DL with anxiety disorder, but at least he is on the DL ...... which frees up a roster space. The point is, everyone knows that Gregg not only should be gone, but should have been gone before the season started. Not one major league GM should want anything to do with Kevin Gregg, under any circumstances. A high-salaried player that is woefully under-performing is one thing. Staying on the team and taking up a roster space simply because you're the highest-paid pitcher and with no hope whatsoever of contributing anything meaningful to the team ever again, is another.

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[Camden_yardbird]

I disagree that we can afford to hold on to Gregg any longer. In the longrun you are just putting more Garfield on the guys you are trusting in the pen. Besides, there are better options. The major league roster is not a place you keep guys you are waiting out knowing in the end that they arent going to add anything to the future of the team.

[OFFNY]

I think it keeps coming back to the 5.8M. It's already spent. Why try to salvage something when you can just replace him? Zach Phillips, Dana Eveland, Pat Neshek, Stu Pomeranz, Jason Berken, etc.

It's a strange, human condition that all of us are vulnerable to. The money is spent, the GM that signed him is gone ................ but if he's still drawing $5.8 Million from the team, you just don't want to give up hope, even if the odds of him turning it around are almost nil. It sucks for the Oriole fans, and if I had to take a wild guess, I'd say that Buck probably isn't exactly thrilled with it, either. But there's nothing that any of us can do about it.

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[OFFNY]

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P.S. For the record, I hope that if and when Kevin Gregg takes the mound for us, he shoves every one of my words down my throat and proves me wrong. I'm still an Oriole fan, first and foremost.

My pride in my knowledge of the game ...... if you want to call it that ... always takes in a distant second.

[apollod]

Somehow, I have become Gregg's defender on this board. It's not that I like him, but it's not like allowing 5 ER in a 4.2 inning stretch is unprecedented. Jim Johnson did that (actually, 5 ER in 4.1 IP) in a four-game stretch on April 28-May 4 last year. He allowed 5 ER in a 2.2 inning three-game stretch from August 4-8. It happens even to good relief pitchers.

Obviously I'm not saying that Gregg is as good a pitcher as JJ, or that his rough start doesn't concern me. But with a guy like this, you have to allow some reasonable period of time to try to get him back on track. I remember dozens of posters saying we should release Gonzo when he had a poor start last year in a lot more opportunities than Gregg has had. Gonzo had an 8.59 ERA as late as May 20, in 17 appearances. Well, guess what? Buck slowly got him rehabilitated to the point where he pitched to a 2.27 ERA the next three months, and we were able to get Pedro Strop for him. Is there anyone on this board who still thinks we should have cut Gonzo last May when he was pitching like crap?

Frankly, I do not expect Gregg to rebound and be as good as Gonzo was last year. But 4 appearances is nowhere near enough to decide to throw away a $5.8 mm investment. I expect Buck to pick his spots and try to see what can be salvaged here.

To put this is perspective; going back 44 Innings for Greg which is June 1st of last year; He has given up 26 Earned Runs (32 Total runs allowed); for a magnificent 5.31 ERA. I don't think anybody is basing this on 4 performances, everybody is basing this on how horrible he's been to start the year, and how terrible he was last year; Gonzo had two seasons where he was terrible in the beginning and got better as he went along; Gregg really hasn't shown that ability.

[OFFNY]

P.S. For the record, I hope that if and when Kevin Gregg takes the mound for us, he shoves every one of my words down my throat and proves me wrong. I'm still an Oriole fan, first and foremost.

My pride in my knowledge of the game ...... if you want to call it that ... always takes in a distant second.

3 up, 3 down. 2 strikeouts. And, it was in a somewhat meaningful situation (5-2 game in the 9th inning).

Ha ha, OFFNY. Gregg made you eat your words.

[jamalshw]

Is it sad that I was kinda hoping for Gregg to completely blow up so it would prompt the team to drop him? I had already mostly written the game off anyway (particularly as he was jogging in). Now, I'm hoping for a lucky stretch of good pitching so we can deal him. There are so many bullpen questions out there on other teams, someone has got to be stupid enough to take him if we eat most of the salary.

[Can_of_corn]

3 up, 3 down. 2 strikeouts. And, it was in a somewhat meaningful situation (5-2 game in the 9th inning).

Ha ha, OFFNY. Gregg made you eat your words.

Maybe he just needs more rest between appearances. Maybe pitch a day, sit on the bench for 10, pitch a day...

[GoldGlove21]

What people forget about Gregg is that he pitched to a 3.51 ERA with 37 saves as recently as 2010. The O's are hoping to use him in blow outs and get him going. Then trade him to save half his salary. I don't think they will cut him anytime soon.

I understanding the line of thinking, but the object here is to keep Gregg on the team (to get nothing for him) until the All Star break so we could possibly save $2M no matter how many games he will cost us? A guy can cost you as many games by pitching as not pitching at all. The pen has been good, but it will get taxed and we will need Gregg's spot.

I am ok with just cutting Gregg, because I think there are better options for us.

[El Gordo]

The Angels just ate 9M of Abreu's contract. It's not just the games Gregg loses himself, it's also the games we lose, not having someone more useful like Berken or Phillips or Neshek in the pen. How much do the O's pay for a W?

[eddie83]

The Angels just ate 9M of Abreu's contract. It's not just the games Gregg loses himself, it's also the games we lose, not having someone more useful like Berken or Phillips or Neshek in the pen. How much do the O's pay for a W?

I think they will drag this out as long as possible. I still think there is a chance they go with a 8 man bullpen at some point. So far it hasn't cost us.

[Frobby]

The Angels just ate 9M of Abreu's contract. It's not just the games Gregg loses himself, it's also the games we lose, not having someone more useful like Berken or Phillips or Neshek in the pen. How much do the O's pay for a W?

Exactly how many times have we lost a game like that this year? We've lost 2 close games all year, including one in which Gregg was the losing pitcher against the Yankees, after giving up a homer after 1.2 innings of work in extra innings against the Yankees. The other close loss was the day before. Gregg didn't pitch in that game, presumably because he had pitched the day before (fairly effectively). If Gregg (or Berken, Phillips or Neshek if they had been on the roster) had pitched in the first two games of the series, they certainly wouldn't have been pitching in the third game as well, and surely not for 1.2 innings. So, I would say there's no reason at all to think the O's would have won any more games than they have if another pitcher was on the roster in Gregg's spot.

[El Gordo]

Exactly how many times have we lost a game like that this year? We've lost 2 close games all year, including one in which Gregg was the losing pitcher against the Yankees, after giving up a homer after 1.2 innings of work in extra innings against the Yankees. The other close loss was the day before. Gregg didn't pitch in that game, presumably because he had pitched the day before (fairly effectively). If Gregg (or Berken, Phillips or Neshek if they had been on the roster) had pitched in the first two games of the series, they certainly wouldn't have been pitching in the third game as well, and surely not for 1.2 innings. So, I would say there's no reason at all to think the O's would have won any more games than they have if another pitcher was on the roster in Gregg's spot.

You miss my point. Gregg is a -WAR RP. He can't really pitch more than an inning. He is redundant, Ayala is better and still cheaper. We would be better served with another LHP or a long man/spot starter in the pen. That will add up to losses as the season progresses. I wasn't saying Gregg has cost us numerous games so far, but I am confident that the combination of his ineffectiveness, redundancy, and the absence of a more needed RP, will. At what point does that cost exceed 5.8 M?

[OFFNY]

Exactly how many times have we lost a game like that this year? We've lost 2 close games all year, including one in which Gregg was the losing pitcher against the Yankees, after giving up a homer after 1.2 innings of work in extra innings against the Yankees. The other close loss was the day before. Gregg didn't pitch in that game, presumably because he had pitched the day before (fairly effectively). If Gregg (or Berken, Phillips or Neshek if they had been on the roster) had pitched in the first two games of the series, they certainly wouldn't have been pitching in the third game as well, and surely not for 1.2 innings. So, I would say there's no reason at all to think the O's would have won any more games than they have if another pitcher was on the roster in Gregg's spot.

Frank, we went through this same type of discussion last year. You continue to insist on minimizing the overall liability that Gregg is without taking into consideration how much he negatively affects the team exponentially.

One of the several examples that I gave from last season when we had this discussion was this: It was a game that we won, but Gregg's awful pitching still cost us in other ways. We had a 7-run lead in the ninth inning. Gregg pitched to 6 batters, and didn't get a single out. He gave up 4 hits, 2 walks, 4 runs, and left with the bases loaded with nobody out. We had to bring our best reliever in (Jimmy Johnson) to bail his ass out, on a day that it should have easily been a given that our best relief pitcher (Johnson) should have had a day off.

So technically, he didn't cost us a game there, which is what you continue to point to. But he not only made us use J.J. when he should have had a day off, but he also put him in an incredibly messy situation (bases loaded, nobody out, a run already in) in which Johnson had to REALLY bear down to get those last 3 outs to save the game. That kind of **** taxes the rest of the team, not just physically, but emotionally. Having a dead weight like that in the bullpen weighs on the players and the team's overall psyche.

And regarding Gregg's damage and/or potential damage to the bullpen season ......... we have been hiding him in the bullpen for over a week. Our other relievers have done a great job hiding him for the most part. But the fact is, we have been hiding him, so we have had to use everyone else a little bit more (an extra out, an extra inning, etc.) than they probably would have had we had a guy that we weren't hiding, so who knows how that will factor out in the next week or so ??? I sure would have liked to have had another pitcher that we were using and not hiding, so that the amount that have had to constantly go to Strop and company would have been a little bit less than we had.