Jake Arrieta needs a one-way ticket to Norfolk

[oriolefan1035]

The most frustrating part is that I would expect Jake to give his usual, "I made good pitches. A couple got up and they got lucky to drop em into the outfield. I think I really had good command early on." Completely lacking any self awareness. Although it may be different this time since Buck chewed him out on the mound. About time.

I think he should go with a personalized version of this tonight...

[Loophole]

There's nothing reactionary about this. Even in the beginning he was pitching over his head. He's a better pitcher than this, but he obviously needs to go to AAA and have some sort of epiphany. Half the pitchers in the organization could've thrown a better game than him tonight.

[TonySoprano]

Last 12 starts, ERA 7.714. That's one-third of a season of pure suckitude. In nine of those twelve starts, he had 4 ER or more, while in the other three, it was a completely different story, 1 ER/game. You can't be ineffective 3 out of 4 times they hand you the ball. He has to be sent down.

[SteveO]

There's nothing reactionary about this. Even in the beginning he was pitching over his head. He's a better pitcher than this, but he obviously needs to go to AAA and have some sort of epiphany. Half the pitchers in the organization could've thrown a better game than him tonight.

Agreed. MLB is not designed to let guys work out their issues at this level. Especially on a team 7 above .500 and in the hunt for a WC. That is EXACTLY why there is such a thing as the minor leagues. In the minors you can have him throw a higher percentage of this pitch or that pitch to work out his feel for it. You can make changes to delivery, approach and if you lose that game at Norfolk......who cares? I think DD if you look at his history is not a big fan of the whole "let em develop in the bigs" philosophy that has permeated this organization.

Arrieta is a talented kid but its pretty clear he lacks the ability to assert that talent on a consistent basis. Whatever the reason, it really does not matter, it needs to be worked out in a place were he work through those specific issues.

[Barnaby Graves]

Cue the .... " But his FIP is good and this extraneous stat is good" crew lol

You know what, his FIP IS very good, his stuff IS very good, and people ARE overblowing his struggles because it's easier to have an emotional reaction than to actually watch the game and try to figure out WHY the ERA sucks. Luck does exist and it does affect results.

I made a thread about Jim Johnson, whose BABIP is literally half of Jake Arrieta's. Now, Johnson's ERA is about 2 runs lower from last year's, despite the fact he walks and strikes out the same amount of guys. But his BABIP is down 100 points.

I realize absolutely no one is going to accept this argument and they're not going to get me to buy in to Arrieta being lost so I hope he pitches well at AAA and makes it back here ASAP, because he's STILL a better pitcher than Eveland and Eveland isn't getting demoted.

[Lucky Jim]

You know what, his FIP IS very good, his stuff IS very good, and people ARE overblowing his struggles because it's easier to have an emotional reaction than to actually watch the game and try to figure out WHY the ERA sucks. Luck does exist and it does affect results.

I made a thread about Jim Johnson, whose BABIP is literally half of Jake Arrieta's. Now, Johnson's ERA is about 2 runs lower from last year's, despite the fact he walks and strikes out the same amount of guys. But his BABIP is down 100 points.

I realize absolutely no one is going to accept this argument and they're not going to get me to buy in to Arrieta being lost so I hope he pitches well at AAA and makes it back here ASAP, because he's STILL a better pitcher than Eveland and Eveland isn't getting demoted.

His peripherals are rising to meet his ERA. His K-rate is declining to meet his SwSt%. His xBABIP is sky-high due to an enormous LD%. His splits w/ runners on remain terrible.

I think he has the makings of a much better pitcher than he's shown. But the gulf between he and that pitcher is not luck right now.

[Barnaby Graves]

His peripherals are rising to meet his ERA. His K-rate is declining to meet his SwSt%. His xBABIP is sky-high due to an enormous LD%. His splits w/ runners on remain terrible.

I think he has the makings of a much better pitcher than he's shown. But the gulf between he and that pitcher is not luck right now.

I can accept most of that. I'm still not sure what makes a demotion the best option if anything other than to get him out of the rotation. What has he got to learn at AAA? A better sinker? A weapon against LHP (to plagarize weams)? Because if it's not about learning or fixing his problems, I'd still take him over Eveland, who just seems like a really awful pitcher to me, worse than Arrieta. More often than not he seems to have no control whatsoever (and again flashes of brilliance but I wouldn't trust him starting). I guess that's not much of an endorsement for Arrieta but that's my opinion.

[EutawBomber]

You know what, his FIP IS very good, his stuff IS very good, and people ARE overblowing his struggles because it's easier to have an emotional reaction than to actually watch the game and try to figure out WHY the ERA sucks. Luck does exist and it does affect results.

I made a thread about Jim Johnson, whose BABIP is literally half of Jake Arrieta's. Now, Johnson's ERA is about 2 runs lower from last year's, despite the fact he walks and strikes out the same amount of guys. But his BABIP is down 100 points.

I realize absolutely no one is going to accept this argument and they're not going to get me to buy in to Arrieta being lost so I hope he pitches well at AAA and makes it back here ASAP, because he's STILL a better pitcher than Eveland and Eveland isn't getting demoted.

Absolute insanity. I don't care what his advanced stats are. It's not about an emotional response - it is about RESULTS. If you can't make it through the 4th inning without giving up 7 runs. If come out and walk the very first batters every time you're handed a lead. If the opposition can just sit back and watch the breaking ball float a foot outside and just wait for a meat fastball to crush. Then you shouldn't be here. I mean some of this is just common sense. You don't need a calculator, and graphs, and charts to know he doesn't belong here. Enough of this ridiculous reasoning.

[Hank Scorpio]

He is a mechanical train wreck. He has absolutely zero fastball command. I can't help but think that someone can help him straighten out his issues in a place where it doesn't hurt the big league ballclub like it has been.

[Lucky Jim]

I can accept most of that. I'm still not sure what makes a demotion the best option if anything other than to get him out of the rotation. What has he got to learn at AAA? A better sinker? A weapon against LHP (to plagarize weams)? Because if it's not about learning or fixing his problems, I'd still take him over Eveland, who just seems like a really awful pitcher to me, worse than Arrieta. More often than not he seems to have no control whatsoever (and again flashes of brilliance but I wouldn't trust him starting). I guess that's not much of an endorsement for Arrieta but that's my opinion.

I think it is mechanical. And I think that he needs to put in work with Peterson. It's about consistency, repeatability, and location.

[EutawBomber]

He is a mechanical train wreck. He has absolutely zero fastball command. I can't help but think that someone can help him straighten out his issues in a place where it doesn't hurt the big league ballclub like it has been.

Bingo.

[SteveO]

I can accept most of that. I'm still not sure what makes a demotion the best option if anything other than to get him out of the rotation. What has he got to learn at AAA? A better sinker? A weapon against LHP (to plagarize weams)? Because if it's not about learning or fixing his problems, I'd still take him over Eveland, who just seems like a really awful pitcher to me, worse than Arrieta. More often than not he seems to have no control whatsoever (and again flashes of brilliance but I wouldn't trust him starting). I guess that's not much of an endorsement for Arrieta but that's my opinion.

Its about long term Barnaby. I do not want Jake down at AAA to punish him or because I think he is somehow worse than Dana Eveland. I want him at AAA because I concede that his stuff is better than his results and I think at this point he has crossed that invisible line were what ails him cannot be fixed without it being a detriment to the MLB team. Let Peterson work with him in AAA, assess things as they move along down there. I think we can all agree at this point though that Jake is not getting results for whatever reason @ the MLB level.

[Barnaby Graves]

Absolute insanity. I don't care what his advanced stats are.

I know you don't.

I mean some of this is just common sense. You don't need a calculator, and graphs, and charts to know he doesn't belong here. Enough of this ridiculous reasoning.

I didn't need any of those things, lol. I weighed Jake Arrieta versus Dana Eveland/Miguel Gonzalez and decided Arrieta is still a better option.

[EutawBomber]

I know you don't.

I didn't need any of those things, lol. I weighed Jake Arrieta versus Dana Eveland/Miguel Gonzalez and decided Arrieta is still a better option.

You would have been the guy on the Titanic who told everyone to relax because because the metrics told you that the ship was unsinkable. When you compare itto other cruiseliners, our ship should be much sturdier. Nothing to worry about. You'd be resting smugly in you cabin as the Arctic water rose higher and higher all around you.

[Barnaby Graves]

Its about long term Barnaby. I do not want Jake down at AAA to punish him or because I think he is somehow worse than Dana Eveland. I want him at AAA because I concede that his stuff is better than his results and I think at this point he has crossed that invisible line were what ails him cannot be fixed without it being a detriment to the MLB team. Let Peterson work with him in AAA, assess things as they move along down there. I think we can all agree at this point though that Jake is not getting results for whatever reason @ the MLB level.

I realize you can't put him in the rotation anymore but with his stuff and age it really bothers me to see Eveland pitching in place of him.