Jake Arrieta needs a one-way ticket to Norfolk

[SteveO]

I know you don't.

I didn't need any of those things, lol. I weighed Jake Arrieta versus Dana Eveland/Miguel Gonzalez and decided Arrieta is still a better option.

Funniest post all year..... to hell with his long term development right??????

Nobody is saying Arrieta is not going to be a better pitcher long term than Eveland or Gonzalez. What they are saying is you dont take a guy with Arrieta's stuff and trot him out to be pounded and continue losing confidence start after start. That is what guys like Eveland and Gonazalez are for. Fodder until your more talented guys are READY to pitch at the MLB level. What does it take for you to realize that Jake is currently broken and needs to be in an environment and with guys who have the time and setting in which those things can be fixed? To listen to you statistical guys speak you would think that Jake is the Job of MLB pitching when the eyeball and other meaningful stats say otherwise.

[Barnaby Graves]

You would have been the guy on the Titanic who told everyone to relax because because the metrics told you that the ship was unsinkable. When you compare itto other cruiseliners, our ship should be much sturdier. Nothing to worry about. You'd be resting smugly in you cabin as the Arctic water rose higher and higher all around you.

If I have to evacuate to the S.S. Dana Eveland, which is a bunch of wormeaten popsicle sticks tied together by dental floss and a high curveball, I'd rather stay in my cabin where at least I still have my alcohol.

[EutawBomber]

Funniest post all year..... to hell with his long term development right??????

Nobody is saying Arrieta is not going to be a better pitcher long term than Eveland or Gonzalez. What they are saying is you dont take a guy with Arrieta's stuff and trot him out to be pounded and continue losing confidence start after start. That is what guys like Eveland and Gonazalez are for. Fodder until your more talented guys are READY to pitch at the MLB level. What does it take for you to realize that Jake is currently broken and needs to be in an environment and with guys who have the time and setting in which those things can be fixed? To listen to you statistical guys speak you would think that Jake is the Job of MLB pitching when the eyeball and other meaningful stats say otherwise.

I get the importance of advanced statistics. There is certainly a value to them. But some people (not mentioning names) start treating the game like it's programming code for a computer and they completely lose sight of reality to the point that they will dismiss a 7+ ERA over 12 games because some other stat tells him Arrieta's is excelling.

[SteveO]

I realize you can't put him in the rotation anymore but with his stuff and age it really bothers me to see Eveland pitching in place of him.

I get that .... but if you really think Jake can be a MLB Starter (which I do) then an inning or two out of the pen here and there is not really going to help him that much. He needs to be at AAA working on his mechanics, working on his location and working on being able to get through 5 innings (pitch conservation). That is what benefits this team, organization and Jake himself the most. Its not a punishment, its an acknowledgement that something is wrong and needs to be worked out. Since when did sending guys to AAA become like marching them to electric chair?

[EutawBomber]

If I have to evacuate to the S.S. Dana Eveland, which is a bunch of wormeaten popsicle sticks tied together by dental floss and a high curveball, I'd rather stay in my cabin where at least I still have my alcohol.

You are changing your argument. No one in this thread is defending Eveland. I think I could pitch better than Eveland. Your original post said that people who wanted Jake to go down only had that opinion based on emotion. And if we just realized that the poor guy's been unlucky then we might gain the wisdom you have. All you have to do is watch the game and you can see that he is not fit to be a major league starter right now. We can certainly debate whether there are silver bullet options in the minors to replace him, but that doesn't change the fac tthat Jake is worthless to the team right now.

[Barnaby Graves]

Funniest post all year..... to hell with his long term development right??????

Nobody is saying Arrieta is not going to be a better pitcher long term than Eveland or Gonzalez. What they are saying is you dont take a guy with Arrieta's stuff and trot him out to be pounded and continue losing confidence start after start. That is what guys like Eveland and Gonazalez are for. Fodder until your more talented guys are READY to pitch at the MLB level. What does it take for you to realize that Jake is currently broken and needs to be in an environment and with guys who have the time and setting in which those things can be fixed? To listen to you statistical guys speak you would think that Jake is the Job of MLB pitching when the eyeball and other meaningful stats say otherwise.

People drop pick up and drop these terms at their convenience. He's a bulldog yesterday, today we're mentally breaking him and ruining his career by letting him fail. Doesn't mean a damn thing to me because it comes from a bunch of people who aren't Jake Arrieta.

Lucky Jim actually gave me something, but I don't know if he or anyone else has an answer for why exactly Arrieta is inconsistent, why he's broke, or why a guy who can do about 80% of his job pretty well could suck so unbelievably bad at the other 20%. That's what I'm looking for because that's the answer I need to be able to justify watching someone else in the rotation because really, if we had a better option, I'd take it. But Tillman is already up and no one else catches my eye.

[SteveO]

You are changing your argument. No one in this thread is defending Eveland. I think I could pitch better than Eveland. Your original post said that people who wanted Jake to go down only had that opinion based on emotion. And if we just realized that the poor guy's been unlucky then we might gain the wisdom you have. All you have to do is watch the game and you can see that he is not fit to be a major league starter right now. We can certainly debate whether there are silver bullet options in the minors to replace him, but that doesn't change the fac tthat Jake is worthless to the team right now.

I am not under the illusion there are any silver bullets in the minors to replace him. You don't use your BMW in a demolition derby though just because you cant find the keys to your junker.

Only time will tell if Jake will get it together and be the pitcher a lot of us hope and think he can or if he will be another DCab/Hayden Penn/ Riley etc (which I dont think he is)

[Gurgi]

I can accept most of that. I'm still not sure what makes a demotion the best option if anything other than to get him out of the rotation. What has he got to learn at AAA? A better sinker? A weapon against LHP (to plagarize weams)? Because if it's not about learning or fixing his problems, I'd still take him over Eveland, who just seems like a really awful pitcher to me, worse than Arrieta. More often than not he seems to have no control whatsoever (and again flashes of brilliance but I wouldn't trust him starting). I guess that's not much of an endorsement for Arrieta but that's my opinion.

Arrieta needs to go down. Let anyone of the AAA starters have his spot. Likely they would pitch to a 5.00 era at least. Which would be way more than Arrieta is giving us. Dont defend him right now. He needs to go somewhere and just do some serious evalutions of himself.

[Gurgi]

I realize you can't put him in the rotation anymore but with his stuff and age it really bothers me to see Eveland pitching in place of him.

Screw that. I want to win. Arrieta is almost a sure loser right now. The other options? Well who knows. Maybe someone can pitch better than a 7.00 era? Think we might find someone who can?

[Gurgi]

If I have to evacuate to the S.S. Dana Eveland, which is a bunch of wormeaten popsicle sticks tied together by dental floss and a high curveball, I'd rather stay in my cabin where at least I still have my alcohol.

Sink then....................I want to try getting on another boat.

[SteveO]

People drop pick up and drop these terms at their convenience. He's a bulldog yesterday, today we're mentally breaking him and ruining his career by letting him fail. Doesn't mean a damn thing to me because it comes from a bunch of people who aren't Jake Arrieta.

Lucky Jim actually gave me something, but I don't know if he or anyone else has an answer for why exactly Arrieta is inconsistent, why he's broke, or why a guy who can do about 80% of his job pretty well could suck so unbelievably bad at the other 20%. That's what I'm looking for because that's the answer I need to be able to justify watching someone else in the rotation because really, if we had a better option, I'd take it. But Tillman is already up and no one else catches my eye.

None of us are pitching coaches. Its speculation but his mechanics seem to be inconsistent, his location as a result is inconsistent. The problem seems to be getting worse instead of better and that would be an indication that this (MLB) is not a place were those issues can be resolved.

Dylan Bundy has more talent in his pinky finger than most the guys on this pitching staff. Does not mean he is ready or should be on the MLB pitching staff. Minor leagues are not a punishment, they are place to get better and Jake Arrieta needs to get better.

[Barnaby Graves]

Screw that. I want to win. Arrieta is almost a sure loser right now. The other options? Well who knows. Maybe someone can pitch better than a 7.00 era? Think we might find someone who can?

ERA is a bull**** stat. The results have sucked, the parade of hits have sucked, the untimely walks have sucked, maybe he's not as good as his FIP but he's not as bad as his ERA and while I'm sure he's being demoted I would really appreciate some insight as to what specifically is so broken about his mechanics. God help me if I have to watch an "innings eater."

[El Gordo]

I'm sorry, I watched this game tonight. Jake wasn't unlucky, he was bad.

[EutawBomber]

I am not under the illusion there are any silver bullets in the minors to replace him. You don't use your BMW in a demolition derby though just because you cant find the keys to your junker.

Only time will tell if Jake will get it together and be the pitcher a lot of us hope and think he can or if he will be another DCab/Hayden Penn/ Riley etc (which I dont think he is)

I think the odds are very high that he is another DCab/Penn/Riley.

[Va Beach O's fan]

You know what, his FIP IS very good, his stuff IS very good, and people ARE overblowing his struggles because it's easier to have an emotional reaction than to actually watch the game and try to figure out WHY the ERA sucks. Luck does exist and it does affect results.

I made a thread about Jim Johnson, whose BABIP is literally half of Jake Arrieta's. Now, Johnson's ERA is about 2 runs lower from last year's, despite the fact he walks and strikes out the same amount of guys. But his BABIP is down 100 points.

I realize absolutely no one is going to accept this argument and they're not going to get me to buy in to Arrieta being lost so I hope he pitches well at AAA and makes it back here ASAP, because he's STILL a better pitcher than Eveland and Eveland isn't getting demoted.

This post is intended to screw around with people right? There is no chance this is a serious post trying to defend a bum like Arrieta right? If Moyer had been called up and given us 12 straight performances like the one's Arrieta has given us, there is ZERO chance you would be defending him.

Speaking of which, any chance we can get him back? We sure could use a craft veteran pitcher right about now. I think it was a BIG mistake not to call him up and let Hunter go earlier to see what we could get out of him.

Bad move Duquette, bad move.