One source is telling me it doesnt look like the Orioles will do anything now

[TXOriole]

Rangers get Dempster for two Single A pitchers(not sure what their ceiling is)...Pirates make 3 or 4 moves...we get nothing because we are too poor to pay 3 million dollars.

I'm glad DD didn't give up any of the top 3 or 4 prospects we have......but Geezus Krist it sucks we didn't do anything at all.

Rangers gave up a good A pitcher and a good A 3B. They had the luxury to do that because they have Olt ahead of Villanueva at 3rd and a slew of pitching prospects.

If our farm system was as deep and rich as theirs...today would look different. But it's not.

[MrOrange82]

Jim, I'm not all buddy buddy with my old boss. In fact, him and I have had a few heated discussions. I just respect the work he did. I don't have to like him to give him respect.

Lirano has been so so since his TJ surgery. Now it could of boiled down to the Twins liking the Sox's players they were offering better than the O's. Who knows, but my point being is people are real easy to toss around their opinions of players without watching them compete at all. That's the point I'm trying to make here. I've played with players that people have labeled "average" and "below average" and I can tell you those evaluations could be furthest from the truth. Until you see what guy's make up, tools and production you can't base anything off what an internet website says. I will believe a scouts take who has put the time and effort into evaluating someone then some guy who drives to the ball park one night and possibly catches him on a bad night and labels them average.

Your perspective, while understandable, doesn't leave much room for discussion. I think there's enough information out there to form reasonably-based opinions. No one's claiming to be absolutely, incontrovertibly right or wrong.

[Flash- bd]

That's fair. You'll note that I haven't been championing a Victorino deal. But folks on here want to be a contender, so I don't think you're "not a contender" spiel is apt for the analysis of others. I happen to share it. I'm just saying, some folks got some helpful pieces. We didn't. My guess is that it's not all Angelos' fault that we came up empty.

Yeah, I might catch some flak for this but my impression is that the it's Angelos' fault bit is pure scapegoatage for those who got their hopes up for a super-fun, super-sweet trade deadline deal (who generally happen to be the same people who have been starting trade threads for the last two months) that didn't transpire, only to leave them desperately disappointed.

Your perspective, while understandable, doesn't leave much room for discussion. I think there's enough information out there to form reasonably-based opinions. No one's claiming to be absolutely, incontrovertibly right or wrong.

Mhm, and let's not pretend like there aren't scouts' opinions out there. In fact, let's not pretend like there aren't plenty of scouts' opinions out there to be accessed.

[$Greatness$]

What non-middle aged stop gap was legitimately available that would have improved this team?

I just saw Liriano go for a bag of balls. Headley was there, but you have to give up a little to get something in return. But if you're fine with this that's cool. DD is cool with it as well. We can still make a run, but I'd hate to see it fall off a cliff because we want to be cheap. But again... whatevs.

[Whammer]

Have you personally went out and scouted the players that were involved in this trade? If so, please enlighten us on your discoveries. They're C- talent because they don't play in an organization that you're familiar with. Good talk though. I love when people dismiss everyone's talent just because they know nothing about it, but what they read off the interwebs.:rolleyestf:

LOL! Yeah - if these C- prospects were in the Os system, they'd be labeled "can't miss" on this board.

[tennOsfan]

While I'd like to see the club improved, I'm glad Duquette is trying to be prudent towards that goal.

[Lucky Jim]

While I'd like to see the club improved, I'm glad Duquette is trying to be prudent towards that goal.

Agreed. Multiple times over.

[Leitch]

I'm kind of disappointed we didn't get Headley. But I'm glad we didn't get Blanton or any other "meh" kind of player just to get somebody.

[zweem]

I guess I fail to see what Peter Angelos has to do with our inactivity at the deadline.

Well we sure didn't pick up any additional payroll did we? In fact quite a few sources said the 3 mil owed Blanton was the sticking point- not the prospects. Liriano would have added payroll too. Is there a pattern here?

[lovetoaster]

I think he meant committment to winning, not giving up prized prospects.

OK, whatever. Regardless, I know what your stance is. And that's fine, I understand it. But given the deals that were made, I don't see what would have been out there for us that would not have compromised an already thin farm system.

Sure, we have holes, but what could we have done to fill those holes? I would have like to had Headley and Blanton, but there is apparently a reason they did not get dealt. But other than that, Dempster wasn't coming here, the Rockies were not going to trade Guthrie back to us, Gaby Sanchez sucks, Liriano sucks, Victorino...meh. I would not have minded Pence, but did we have the pieces to make that deal work? I don't know.

I would have like to make a deal, but given the state of this team, I would not have given up much of the future to make it happen. And seeing the deals that did end up going down, I don't think we missed out on much.

[24fps]

While I'd like to see the club improved, I'm glad Duquette is trying to be prudent towards that goal.

I agree, but I want to know two things.

1. What is DD's actual budget cap at this moment?

2. Besides Arrieta, what were the remaining pieces in the Headly deal that DD passed on?

[Rene88]

OK, whatever. Regardless, I know what your stance is. And that's fine, I understand it. But given the deals that were made, I don't see what would have been out there for us that would not have compromised an already thin farm system.

Sure, we have holes, but what could we have done to fill those holes? I would have like to had Headley and Blanton, but there is apparently a reason they did not get dealt. But other than that, Dempster wasn't coming here, the Rockies were not going to trade Guthrie back to us, Gaby Sanchez sucks, Liriano sucks, Victorino...meh. I would not have minded Pence, but did we have the pieces to make that deal work? I don't know.

I would have like to make a deal, but given the state of this team, I would not have given up much of the future to make it happen. And seeing the deals that did end up going down, I don't think we missed out on much.

But there were salary dumps available. At the very least, get rid of Reynolds and get another SP for depth in case of an injury and to force Hunter to the bp. But doing NOTHING, after saying publicly you would be active, is unacceptable to me.

[TonySoprano]

Until you see what guy's make up, tools and production you can't base anything off what an internet website says. I will believe a scouts take who has put the time and effort into evaluating someone then some guy who drives to the ball park one night and possibly catches him on a bad night and labels them average.

I guess you spoke to some scouts about the Orioles to make this assessment.

He has C- chips to work with... And the only reason it's a C- is because they have Bundy.

[soxhotcorner14]

Yeah, I might catch some flak for this but my impression is that the it's Angelos' fault bit is pure scapegoatage for those who got their hopes up for a super-fun, super-sweet trade deadline deal (who generally happen to be the same people who have been starting trade threads for the last two months) that didn't transpire, only to leave them desperately disappointed.

Mhm, and let's not pretend like there aren't scouts' opinions out there. In fact, let's not pretend like there aren't plenty of scouts' opinions out there to be accessed.

And lets not pretend that I've played for, and worked with a scout who is now the special assistant to a GM for a major league baseball team that I stay in contact with almost on a daily basis. As well as others in the business, hell a few of them on the team you root for. So let's not pretend I'm just up here winging it. I can tell you from this person's perspective these players involved in the Lirano trade aren't "filler" players. They have upside and that's surprising since Lirano hasn't really been himself since TJ.

[Lucky Jim]

Yeah, I might catch some flak for this but my impression is that the it's Angelos' fault bit is pure scapegoatage for those who got their hopes up for a super-fun, super-sweet trade deadline deal (who generally happen to be the same people who have been starting trade threads for the last two months) that didn't transpire, only to leave them desperately disappointed.

That's all I'm really getting at. In the end, I actually think Duquette was largely right not to make any deals regarding prospects, and have been preaching as much for a while. I just want people to be consistent, and the scapegoating is, to me, absurd.