Revised Poll - Whom Do You Prefer As Starting Second Baseman Down The Stretch (Not DH)

[Tony-OH]

Tony -

you make some good points, and a lot of it is probably true...

But we live in a "what have you done for me TODAY" world -- and BRob is actually playing really good right now. And he's hitting really good right now - and it looks like he's getting his groove back. He's the proverbial "hot hand".

Buck has shown an enormous amount of faith in BRob - maybe to a fault - but he saw something many of us didn't... and I think it is beginning to pay off. For the O's sake, let's hope so.

Yep, he's been good for the last two games. I would say that is the actual definition of a small sample size.

[Redskins Rick]

Schoop is no Manny. The Mannys come around very seldom. If we were totally out of contention for a WC I would see calling up Schoop and starting him would be a great idea. But not now. Terrible idea.

When Manny was called up, there was manny on here, confused, his minor league numbers wasn't impressive, and given that they were in a pennant chase, many thought DD & Buck had lost their marbles.

[Old#5fan]

Yep, he's been good for the last two games. I would say that is the actual definition of a small sample size.

True, but compared to Roberts, Flaherty's entire major league career is a small sample size isn't it?

[Old#5fan]

When Manny was called up, there was manny on here, confused, his minor league numbers wasn't impressive, and given that they were in a pennant chase, many thought DD & Buck had lost their marbles.

You really, truly believe he (Schoop) is even remotely as good ad Manny? I sure don't.

[Tony-OH]

Looking at the poll results so far, I either miscalculated the fanboy/girl aspect of Robert's appeal, people don't understand simple statistics, or Flaherty's terrible start really soured people on him.

Maybe I should start a poll and see how many people would still vote for the same guy putting up the same stats who was signed a free agent and not named Brian Roberts. My guess is without the fanboy aspect of what Roberts did in the past for the Orioles, there would be a lot less support.

Not one person has ever said they would have signed Brian Roberts as a free agent and replace Flaherty with him had Roberts not been under contract. Not one. That tells me people are voting with their hearts instead of their minds.

[Flash- bd]

Yeah, the way they gave him half a season to claim the job was really disgusting!

I guess you've forgotten about the Yamaico Navarro experiment already. Or choosing to ignore the fact that Flaherty had 153 ML ABs coming into this season.

Yet despite such a fact, and despite the fact it took him "half a season to get going at the plate" (which, in un-biased terms, was 29 G or 90 ABs), he has a .631 OPS on the season to Roberts .660 while playing better defense, and obviously offering far more upside.

And that in the month of consistent playing time he got (84 ABs) before Roberts came back he had a .806 OPS.

Yes, I guess you are choosing to ignore all of that.

IMO, it's an open-shut case. In this one, Buck's extreme loyalty is hurting us, and Flaherty himself.

[DrungoHazewood]

Can I vote for Navarro?

Actually, I don't think there's a win's difference between any of the four of them in their most likely performances. And heck if I know who is going to squeeze that extra fraction of a win out. If someone put a gun to my head I'd probably go with Flaherty, but I don't know if this is right. It's kind of like asking whether they'd be better off with the 1985 versions of Juan Bonilla, Rich Dauer, Tom O'Malley or Kelly Paris.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'd guess this poll has been slightly influenced by the "what have you do for me lately (i.e last game)" mentality. It's fun to see Roberts show some flashes and drive the ball occaisionally, but I'd prefer Flaherty. I doubt he'd do worse overall and he at least has upside imo. I'm at least content that Buck has put in a D replacement for Roberts lately.

[Crazysilver03]

Looking at the poll results so far, I either miscalculated the fanboy/girl aspect of Robert's appeal, people don't understand simple statistics, or Flaherty's terrible start really soured people on him.

Maybe I should start a poll and see how many people would still vote for the same guy putting up the same stats who was signed a free agent and not named Brian Roberts. My guess is without the fanboy aspect of what Roberts did in the past for the Orioles, there would be a lot less support.

Not one person has ever said they would have signed Brian Roberts as a free agent and replace Flaherty with him had Roberts not been under contract. Not one. That tells me people are voting with their hearts instead of their minds.

Why do you have such a hard-on for rallying against Roberts enough to question people's intelligence? You say you want discussion, yet when people cite Roberts hot week, you say well look at his whole numbers, but then ignore Flaherty's numbers on the year because of his mini-hot streak. You automatically assume that people are voting this way because of the last two days or because of the last 7 years.

Flaherty doesn't take at-bats like Roberts does. He rarely puts the ball in play with runners on 3rd. And this is coming from someone that voted for Flaherty. Well, I just hope I don't lose my membership again for questioning you again.

[Tony-OH]

Can I vote for Navarro?

Actually, I don't think there's a win's difference between any of the four of them in their most likely performances. And heck if I know who is going to squeeze that extra fraction of a win out. If someone put a gun to my head I'd probably go with Flaherty, but I don't know if this is right. It's kind of like asking whether they'd be better off with the 1985 versions of Juan Bonilla, Rich Dauer, Tom O'Malley or Kelly Paris.

Tom O'malley because he clearly gives you the platoon advantage against right-handers.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Looking at the poll results so far, I either miscalculated the fanboy/girl aspect of Robert's appeal, people don't understand simple statistics, or Flaherty's terrible start really soured people on him.

Maybe I should start a poll and see how many people would still vote for the same guy putting up the same stats who was signed a free agent and not named Brian Roberts. My guess is without the fanboy aspect of what Roberts did in the past for the Orioles, there would be a lot less support.

Not one person has ever said they would have signed Brian Roberts as a free agent and replace Flaherty with him had Roberts not been under contract. Not one. That tells me people are voting with their hearts instead of their minds.

Or people have thought it out and made their decision in a rational manner. But it's probably easier to just dismiss everyone else's opposing opinion.

[Tony-OH]

Why do you have such a hard-on for rallying against Roberts enough to question people's intelligence? You say you want discussion, yet when people cite Roberts hot week, you say well look at his whole numbers, but then ignore Flaherty's numbers on the year because of his mini-hot streak. You automatically assume that people are voting this way because of the last two days or because of the last 7 years.

Flaherty doesn't take at-bats like Roberts does. He rarely puts the ball in play with runners on 3rd. And this is coming from someone that voted for Flaherty. Well, I just hope I don't lose my membership again for questioning you again.

Umm, read into things much? Yes, I do think some people are voting this way because of the last two games. One poster even said Roberts was hot. I think you know that wasn't true prior to the last two games because I showed the numbers. I've been very consistent when it coems to my opinion on why I prefer Flaherty. Better defense, and more of an upside with the bat. As Drungo pointed out correctly, there probably isn't a huge difference with the stick overall, but I believe when you add in defense, Flaherty is the clear choice if you take away the fandom aspect. And yes, there is a clear fandom aspect to this vote. Are you telling me you would have signed a 35-year old second baseman who has barely played over the last three years to replace Flaherty when Flaherty was on a hot streak if he were not Brian Roberts? No, you would not.

Plus, you never "lost your membership" for questioning me. You lost your plus membership that I gave you for free because you were supposed to be updating our player trackers and did not. Why should I give you something for free if you could not fulfill what you promised,? Cry all you want about me, but at least get the whole story out.

[WEAVERMAN]

The choice should be between Brian and Schoop, not Flaherty. The only thing Flaherty does better than Brian is cover more ground at 2nd base.

Am I voting with my heart and not my head? Maybe. I like Brian, always have and I always will. He's a good guy, loyal to the Orioles, and he was one heck of fine 2nd baseman. I hope he has chance to experience playoff baseball before DD lets him go.

[Tony-OH]

Or people have thought it out and made their decision in a rational manner. But it's probably easier to just dismiss everyone else's opposing opinion.

I'm allowed to have opinion on why I think the vote is going the other way. I didn't call anyone an idiot, but even his supporters have to admit that if his name is not Brian Roberts, he would not be the everyday second baseman on a contending team. That's my point and I've yet to hear one person say they would have signed a 35-year old second baseman with Roberts numbers and replaced the Flaherty/Casilla platoon that was actually performing quite well at the time.

Everyone knows its ludicrous to keep three second basemans on a roster when you plan to play one every day.

[Tony-OH]

The choice should be between Brian and Schoop, not Flaherty. The only thing Flaherty does better than Brian is cover more ground at 2nd base.

Am I voting with my heart and not my head? Maybe. I like Brian, always have and I always will. He's a good guy, loyal to the Orioles, and he was one heck of fine 2nd baseman. I hope he has chance to experience playoff baseball before DD lets him go.

How so, you mean by collected $30 million in checks over the last three years while putting up a .222/.271/.315/.586 line in 92 games? Or do you mean he's been loyal by keeping the Orioles paralyzed in upgrading their second base position for the last three years while he "fights" to keep his career alive even though he caused one of his injuries?

BTW, Schoop very well may be the best choice in September, but Buck will still run out Roberts everyday regardless.