Revised Poll - Whom Do You Prefer As Starting Second Baseman Down The Stretch (Not DH)

[CA-ORIOLE]

The choice should be between Brian and Schoop, not Flaherty. The only thing Flaherty does better than Brian is cover more ground at 2nd base.

Am I voting with my heart and not my head? Maybe. I like Brian, always have and I always will. He's a good guy, loyal to the Orioles, and he was one heck of fine 2nd baseman. I hope he has chance to experience playoff baseball before DD lets him go.

I'm guessing Flaherty could also throw the ball from the shift to the first baseman and we could keep Machado on the left side of the IF.

Roberts range looks really bad and the numbers are starting to show it. His range is awful and he really can't contribute with his speed. He needs to hit a lot better than a 660 OPS to make up for Flaherty's defense imo. Maybe he can. I don't know. I just doubt Flaherty would be worse overall and I'd prefer to do or die with the younger guy.

[Jonesy10]

Give me Flaherty. The only thing I'd take Roberts over Flaherty for is a situation with a man on 3rd and less than 2 outs. Flaherty has hit about .290 since the start of June and showed good pop. I think I'll take his offense over Roberts' (even though B-Rob has had 2 straight strong games) and his defense is SOOOOOOOOOOO much better which is almost more important from your #9 hitter.

[WEAVERMAN]

How so, you mean by collected $30 million in checks over the last three years while putting up a .222/.271/.315/.586 line in 92 games? Or do you mean he's been loyal by keeping the Orioles paralyzed in upgrading their second base position for the last three years while he "fights" to keep his career alive even though he caused one of his injuries?

BTW, Schoop very well may be the best choice in September, but Buck will still run out Roberts everyday regardless.

Few players, and I mean virtually none, would have given up 30 million. They all fight to come back because of the money, the desire to play and the lifestyle. What happened to him was very unfortunate for him and the Orioles, agreed.

[Il BuonO]

Yeah, I don't get the whole loyalty thing. You mean you think Roberts takes less money to stay here next year? Like say the major league minimum as opposed to double that amount *cough* from another team. Doubt it. I really hope they are done with him after this year though.

[Ed-die... Ed-die]

That's my point and I've yet to hear one person say they would have signed a 35-year old second baseman with Roberts numbers and replaced the Flaherty/Casilla platoon that was actually performing quite well at the time.

Okay... I'll bite. I would. And - just to take off my orange-colored glasses - I just asked a good friend of mine who's a huge Nats fan what he thought. He said if he was running the Nats, he'd definitely sign BRob "yesterday" (meaning "immediately") with the full intention of giving him the starting job. He said - (and I honestly think this is what the majority of BRob fans think) - that BRob "brings a good game... and has always brought a good game". He went on to say that he'd love to have Brian in the Nat's lineup, as he can't stand their second basemen. He said, and I quote "Both Lambardozzi and Espinosa strike out too much, have no power, no average, and don't run. At least with Roberts, I know he can do all of that. He's always done it - and even though he's been hurt, but I'd take a chance that he can do it again. He's in shape and looks like he wants to prove himself."

And - putting the orange-colored glasses back on, that is the point, a lot of folks are making. O's fans from 5-6-7 years back saw a special player and yes, they still back him. Isn't that what Buck - who knows more than all of us put together - is banking on too? He knows what Brian can do - and believes he can still do it - at least better than ANY other option we have.

[TradeAngelos]

The bolded phrase here is key.

A wise poster on here recently said:

Take out Roberts there, insert Flaherty, and you get the idea. Flaherty has a .631 OPS for the season. When people talk about the David Newhan style hot stretch that Flaherty was on right before B-Rob came up on June 30, they are talking about an 8 game stretch (31 PA) from June 18-June 29. While he did OPS an incredible 1.413 during those 8 games, the 8 game stretch before that was just as pathetic as the first one is impressive (.321 OPS).

I happen to believe that the 8 game stretch is not that representative of Flaherty's actual talent level (at this point of his career anyway), and is really just noise in the signal, so to speak.

So yes, a 35 year old DOES have more upside than the young guy in this case (imo of course, and apparently the opinion of Buck).

B-Rob has a career OPS of .762 and I happen to believe he can still get his numbers fairly close to that this season if given enough PA (at least around .730 or so) whereas in an almost full season of Games Played for his ML career Flaherty is still hovering at .625.

That is what I mean by 'more upside.'

Hate to break the news to you, but 35 year old middle infielder's who have a sub .600 OPS the past 4 YEARS don't perform anywhere close to their "career" averages.

26 year old's on the other hand you have usually have not seen the best of, especially with the lack of experience Flaherty has.

Have we mentioned defense yet? Of course not, you don't want to get into that discussion. Another loser for your side.

The notion that RF has less upside than Roberts is quite frankly, nonsense.

[Il BuonO]

And - putting the orange-colored glasses back on, that is the point, a lot of folks are making. O's fans from 5-6-7 years back saw a special player and yes, they still back him. Isn't that what Buck - who knows more than all of us put together - is banking on too? He knows what Brian can do - and believes he can still do it - at least better than ANY other option we have.

He isn't that player anymore. $10 mil and being a veteran may have a lot to do with it.

[Il BuonO]

With regard to upside, did anyone see Flaherty putting up the kind of defense he did before the season started? Guys who are younger at least have the possibility of getting better. I'm not making any allusions as to what his offense might be as I still think he needs to improve there, but Roberts deficiencies in the field will cost us eventually. There haven't been enough games yet, but Manny can't keep bailing him out on shifts. They aren't in effect on every batter.

[Old#5fan]

Hate to break the news to you, but 35 year old middle infielder's who have a sub .600 OPS the past 4 YEARS don't perform anywhere close to their "career" averages.

26 year old's on the other hand you have usually have not seen the best of, especially with the lack of experience Flaherty has.

Have we mentioned defense yet? Of course not, you don't want to get into that discussion. Another loser for your side.

The notion that RF has less upside than Roberts is quite frankly, nonsense.

He only has the same upside of Roberts if he starts hitting significantly better and with consistency. That is something Flaherty has not shown the ability to do. Roberts has many times over, even if he is not in his prime. We need to put our best proven players on the field.

[Old#5fan]

With regard to upside, did anyone see Flaherty putting up the kind of defense he did before the season started? Guys who are younger at least have the possibility of getting better. I'm not making any allusions as to what his offense might be as I still think he needs to improve there, but Roberts deficiencies in the field will cost us eventually. There haven't been enough games yet, but Manny can't keep bailing him out on shifts. They aren't in effect on every batter.

Good points but Roberts is a proven doubles machine and is starting to look like he is getting back into form. Flaherty is well, he's not a doubles machine. He is well below league average offensively for his career. Some act like Roberts is a feeble old man at 35 but in actuality he is more like a 32 year old as he has essentially had three years off!

[Ed-die... Ed-die]

He isn't that player anymore. $10 mil and being a veteran may have a lot to do with it.

That's not the point at all. The point is he has a loyal fanbase that likes him and sees him as the best thing we've got going at second base right now. Nothing against Ryan, but BRob is who you want in the 2013 playoff chase, not a, so far, career .215 streaky hitter.

[Il BuonO]

That's not the point at all. The point is he has a loyal fanbase that likes him and sees him as the best thing we've got going at second base right now. Nothing against Ryan, but BRob is who you want in the 2013 playoff chase, not a, so far, career .215 streaky hitter.

Yeah, I get it. I'm more interested in the team winning. Roberts' offensive production won't be enough in the playoff chase you're talking about to offset his defense.

[DrungoHazewood]

Okay... I'll bite. I would. And - just to take off my orange-colored glasses - I just asked a good friend of mine who's a huge Nats fan what he thought. He said if he was running the Nats, he'd definitely sign BRob "yesterday" (meaning "immediately") with the full intention of giving him the starting job. He said - (and I honestly think this is what the majority of BRob fans think) - that BRob "brings a good game... and has always brought a good game". He went on to say that he'd love to have Brian in the Nat's lineup, as he can't stand their second basemen. He said, and I quote "Both Lambardozzi and Espinosa strike out too much, have no power, no average, and don't run. At least with Roberts, I know he can do all of that. He's always done it - and even though he's been hurt, but I'd take a chance that he can do it again. He's in shape and looks like he wants to prove himself."

And - putting the orange-colored glasses back on, that is the point, a lot of folks are making. O's fans from 5-6-7 years back saw a special player and yes, they still back him. Isn't that what Buck - who knows more than all of us put together - is banking on too? He knows what Brian can do - and believes he can still do it - at least better than ANY other option we have.

I think your friend is probably upset that his team is dramatically underperforming, and has a giant black hole at second. Both Espinosa and Lombardozzi have been flat-out terrible, and were replaced by Rendon, who is really a third baseman. Roberts would probably be a slight upgrade over the first two, maybe on par with Rendon and that's only because he's a terrible fielder when playing out of position.

The objective evidence is that Roberts just isn't very good any more, and almost no other team would even consider starting him right now. Unfortunately the evidence is far from clear that Casilla or Flaherty are a lot better.

[Tycho Brahe]

B Rob seems to be coming around at the plate, so I'd give him another 7-10 days and see if he can hit consistently. But if not, then I'd give Flaherty another try given his clearly superior defense and at least potential to increase his offense.

I think it will become clear in the next 5-7 games as to whether we value B Rob's offense more than we would value Ryan Flaherty's defense.

[Tony-OH]

Good points but Roberts is a proven doubles machine and is starting to look like he is getting back into form. Flaherty is well, he's not a doubles machine. He is well below league average offensively for his career. Some act like Roberts is a feeble old man at 35 but in actuality he is more like a 32 year old as he has essentially had three years off!

If this was 2009 you would have a great point and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Unfortunately for the pro-Roberts camp, this is 2013. There is a reason he is hitting well below his career average, because he's not that player any more.

From 2004-2009, Brian Roberts hit 279 doubles in 4143 plate appearances for one double every 14.9 PA. That's a double machine. From 2010 until today, Brian Roberts has hit 27 double in 641 PA for one double every 23.7 PA. He's hitting a double one every 21.3 PA this year. The only form he's getting back into is the same form he's been since 2010. At 35-years old, he's not going to suddenly blossom back into a double machine, especially with the PED testing going on now.