Churchill's latest - M's don't want to trade Jones?

[big leagues 23]

This is a great post. I have been saying this all along. We should be in the driver's seat with these trades...not the Mariners, Reds, Cubs, or any other team. Erik Bedard is a true ace with Cy Young potential written all over him. And yet...we keep seeing reports about the Mariners not wanting to give up this prospect, or that prospect. It is absurd. Do they want to win this year or not? If I were AM, I would tell the Mariners "this is who we want for Erik Bedard...you have 24 hours to decide. If not, we are pulling the offer off the table and you can find someone else to be the ace of your staff". It absolutely should not be the Mariners saying "this is who we will give you for Bedard". I'm glad that AM has not pulled the trigger if all these reports are true about the Mariners not wanting to give up players x, y, or z. But it's time to s**t or get off the pot. The games are getting old. Players of Bedard's caliber are not available via a trade that often and if the Mariners want to play games, close that door. Heck...threaten to trade him to the Angels...that should cause some concern for them. Sorry for the rant...I am just frustrated.

Right there with you. It's good to see, from the report on prospect insder, that it is the Mariners holding things up because they are debating on whether to trade Jones or not.

[Lamda]

Well as an M's fan i'm pissed if we don't make this trade. Jones is good yes but pitching wins Championships and we don't got any in Seattle. We have Felix but have since surrounded him with #4 type pitchers. Apparently a good deal of our fan base is willing to take 3-4 years off of their lives to wait for all these kids to develop before we have a team to make it into the playoffs. I personally don't get it. We get Bedard and things get interesting - I still think we are about 2-3 players from getting into the playoffs but we can get those next year when Sexson and others come off the books. But to do nothing an wait for atleast 3 years until Jones/Morrow/Clement even start to produce at what we think they can.... is just really stupid.

[nyjimbo]

Withoout Jones in this deal it's no deal. Without Jones, how attractive does the Mets deal now look?

I couldn't agree more. I know the Mets would love to acquire a top of the rotation pitcher. You must remember that in N.Y. it's almost as important to grab the headlines of the Post and Daily News as it is to win on the field.

[nyjimbo]

Withoout Jones in this deal it's no deal. Without Jones, how attractive does the Mets deal now look?

I couldn't agree more. I know the Mets would love to acquire a top of the rotation pitcher. You must remember that in N.Y. it's almost as important to grab the headlines of the Post and Daily News as it is to win on the field.

[Hank Scorpio]

I don't think Jimbo could agree more.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Aren't the Mariners that don't want to give up Jones, Morrow, etc. the same club that refused to part with can't-miss future star J. Cruz about a decade ago?

[TheBee]

Well as an M's fan i'm pissed if we don't make this trade. Jones is good yes but pitching wins Championships and we don't got any in Seattle. We have Felix but have since surrounded him with #4 type pitchers. Apparently a good deal of our fan base is willing to take 3-4 years off of their lives to wait for all these kids to develop before we have a team to make it into the playoffs. I personally don't get it. We get Bedard and things get interesting - I still think we are about 2-3 players from getting into the playoffs but we can get those next year when Sexson and others come off the books. But to do nothing an wait for atleast 3 years until Jones/Morrow/Clement even start to produce at what we think they can.... is just really stupid.

Since you're an M's fan - isn't Bavasi on the hot seat? Will he be around in three years if these prospects become studs?

[health55]

Aren't the Mariners that don't want to give up Jones, Morrow, etc. the same club that refused to part with can't-miss future star J. Cruz about a decade ago?

And the same Seattle team that traded prospects Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe to the Boston Red Sox in 1997 for reliever Heathcliff Slocumb.

It cuts both ways.

[Lamda]

Not sure if he's in the hot seat or not - our FO is so messed up to be honest that its hard to tell what they would do. He was on the hot-seat last year and the team won 88 games eventhough we all believe it was a fluke. That saved him for probably 2 years I think - I don't think he has the same win this year or you're out tag on him.

I would say no though he won't be around in 3 years to see all these kids playing. I've said on our boards and even debated with Churchill pretty heavily that with Bedard we could win maybe 90 games at best. Without Bedard I think we win maybe 80 games at best - we're an incredibly bad team right now. I know some of you talk that Bedard would put us over the top - sadly that isn't the case which is maybe why there is some hesitation on our end to deal Jones. Our offense stinks but I say get Bedard this offseason and fix the offensive holes next year so win basically the same 88 games this year and then next year make the real run at the playoffs.

[ChaosLex]

Well as an M's fan i'm pissed if we don't make this trade. Jones is good yes but pitching wins Championships and we don't got any in Seattle. We have Felix but have since surrounded him with #4 type pitchers. Apparently a good deal of our fan base is willing to take 3-4 years off of their lives to wait for all these kids to develop before we have a team to make it into the playoffs. I personally don't get it. We get Bedard and things get interesting - I still think we are about 2-3 players from getting into the playoffs but we can get those next year when Sexson and others come off the books. But to do nothing an wait for atleast 3 years until Jones/Morrow/Clement even start to produce at what we think they can.... is just really stupid.

Welcome, man. Always good to hear from other fans on our board.

Do you think a trade of Jones, Sherrill, Tillman, and Triunfel would be accepted by most M's fans (including yourself)? Or do you think that's giving up too much?

[birrman54]

Welcome, man. Always good to hear from other fans on our board.

Do you think a trade of Jones, Sherrill, Tillman, and Triunfel would be accepted by most M's fans (including yourself)? Or do you think that's giving up too much?

From what I understand they might consider that too much. They're comfortable giving up the first 3 and someone else like Tuiasosopo.

[mapierce]

From what I understand they might consider that too much. They're comfortable giving up the first 3 and someone else like Tuiasosopo.

I'd do that trade with Tuiasosopo instead of Triunfel. I just want to see us do something though... this is getting old.

[Sandwich Pick]

From what I understand they might consider that too much. They're comfortable giving up the first 3 and someone else like Tuiasosopo.

What about Jones, Clement and Triunfel? No pitchers.

[El Gordo]

Not sure if he's in the hot seat or not - our FO is so messed up to be honest that its hard to tell what they would do. He was on the hot-seat last year and the team won 88 games eventhough we all believe it was a fluke. That saved him for probably 2 years I think - I don't think he has the same win this year or you're out tag on him.

I would say no though he won't be around in 3 years to see all these kids playing. I've said on our boards and even debated with Churchill pretty heavily that with Bedard we could win maybe 90 games at best. Without Bedard I think we win maybe 80 games at best - we're an incredibly bad team right now. I know some of you talk that Bedard would put us over the top - sadly that isn't the case which is maybe why there is some hesitation on our end to deal Jones. Our offense stinks but I say get Bedard this offseason and fix the offensive holes next year so win basically the same 88 games this year and then next year make the real run at the playoffs.

What have you lost to take you from 88 wins to this state? I can only think of Guillen. It seems to me you could have signed a stop gap RF,(Geoff Jenkins e.g.) enabling you to trade Jones for Bedard and be in good shape. Include Millar for Sexton and it's even better. Your only giving up prospects who won't figure in your immediate plans.

[Doyle Hargraves]

And the same Seattle team that traded prospects Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe to the Boston Red Sox in 1997 for reliever Heathcliff Slocumb.

It cuts both ways.

Agreed. Maybe they are still gunshy about giving up R. Soriano for Horacio Ramirez. I have seen Bedard pitch, and he is no Horacio. Or maybe they don't want to be like the Expos that gave up R. Johnson for a playoff run with Mark Langston. As others have said, Seattle's rotation certainly appears weak as compared to most of the other AL contenders. Of course, they are short a corner outfielder or 2 right now also. Maybe Morrow, Washburn, Weaver, Ramirez, Silva will all have a great year, or maybe not