Jump to content

Dan Duquette can't get the financial go-ahead from owner Peter Angelos to meet Morales' asking price


Greg

Recommended Posts

It's just pretty comical, this club can't sign one or two F/A that would change the season to a positive mode.Everyone this club attempts to sign,it's a major deal or outcome. Just get on with it, there is nothing happening here. It is what it is.

Well the sad part is Angelos just didn't tell DD at the beginning of the off-season that your budget is 84 million and be done with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 322
  • Created
  • Last Reply
My question is, we went in to the off season looking for a SP and a bat. We freed up 10M and used it to replace an expensive CL with a better cheaper one, and added another set up man. If they only have 100 marbles, where are they getting the money for the SP and Bat?

Roberts, Hammel, Wada, Betemit, McLouth, and Casilla all coming off the books plus the difference from 2013 OD payroll from 100mm less the scheduled increases to Jones, ODay, and Chen and the arb increases of the others (and less Norris' 5mm).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I've posted before, the only rational explanation I can come up with for Angelos not going all-out to try to build a team that will give him one last shot at the World Series is his desire to hoard cash so that, after estate taxes, his heirs will not be cash-strapped in running the team (including, possibly, extending Hardy or signing Davis, Weiters and/or Machado).

I would love to think that he's preparing to try to sell the team, but the kinds of financial commitments to a SP or DH that we're talking about wouldn't reduce interest in, or have an effect on, the price of a billion-dollar asset. To the contrary, if you believed (as most of us do) that a couple of signings costing $20 million dollars a year would enhance the chances of building a contender and boosting fan enthusiasm and attendance, they could the current owners' efforts to generate interest and get a higher price.

Based on the information I have seen, Angelos' thrift can be explained only by his irrationality or by estate planning concerns.

I absolutely agree completely with everything, except the notion that a few bad contracts won't affect the sale value. If we extend a couple of contracts that commit us to $70 million, and those contracts become "bad" contracts due to performance or injury, they will have an impact on the sale price. Forbes put our franchise value at $618 million last year. These contracts are not small change, even in the context of such a large transaction.

Mr. Angelos looks pretty spry, so I don't see much changing anytime soon. And it would obviously be wrong to hope otherwise. So this could be our operating reality for some time to come. And the day that the franchise is inherited by his sons could mark the beginning of another long chapter for Orioles fans. Imagine a protracted legal dispute between the Angelos estate and the IRS over his holdings in the Orioles and MASN. Very large estates are normally audited by the IRS and it wouldn't be surprising to see a very complicated estate handoff from a prominent billionaire lawyer to his heirs. Selling the team could be tricky until the estate has cleared through the IRS, which will take years. Hopefully that goes smoothly because a new fear would be a payroll migraine like the Mets and Dodgers had while their financial/legal situations were in flux.

Typing this, it sounds a little doomsday/conspiracy theorist. But like the old saying, there are two things you can be certain of, death and taxes. If the Angelos family intended to dispose their interests in the Orioles/MASN, the team would have already been up for sale......Mr. Angelos is not a young guy. So I'm confident that the Orioles will go through the above process. If their intent is to continue owning the Orioles, it's very difficult to imagine any increase in spending for the on-field product until the long process of settling the estate has concluded. It would be pretty reckless to go on a spending spree with so much variability in how the IRS will value his assets. All in all, it paints a pretty gloomy picture for our ability to be much more than a small-mid market spender for a long while to come. That's my take....for what it's worth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tend to avoid Angelos threads. My question is straightforward and objectively stated. Have any former gms gone on record and explicitly stated that Angelos interfered with their daily and within budget operations of the franchise? I am not talking about large-long term contracts which I would assume typically involve ownership approval.

Up until Andy Macphail was hired, the predominance of the evidence was that Potter micromanaged almost every aspect of GM decision making, including the hiring and firing of managers, the vetoing of negotiated and agreed upon trades, the micromanagement of player deals and even instances of discipline involving Potter's favorite players, etc. There are many, many articles from all over baseball that identified this pattern from Pat Gillick who "retired" from the Potter regimen only to soon after return to work for two other teams and lead them to tremendously successful runs, the non hiring of Kevin Malone, the Frank Wren hiring and firing, the firing of Davey Johnson, the Syd Thrift era, and the Beattie/Flanagan era up until Macphail when it appears that, for whatever reason, he began to be less energetically micromanaging in his approach to the team. Up until this offseason, that has seemed to be the commonly held wisdom, that he was not as micromanagingly involved, but the Balfour debacle seemed eerily reminiscent of earlier Potter activities.

Just a sampling...

Frank Wren explicitly said yes, Potter interfered.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/sports/baseball/08chass.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

When Pat Gillick was GM, the Baltimore Sun reported..."Angelos frequently overrules Gillick, running off managers, vetoing trades, negotiating major contracts." http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-03-27/sports/1998086029_1_pat-gillick-owner-peter-angelos-malone

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you really wanted to sign those guys, i mean REALLY wanted to....outside of Burnett, I'll give ya him.

If there was nobody worth signing, then why trade Johnson in the first place?

If the Johnson trade was supposed to be about reallocation of resources, then Duquette must have believed that there was some alternative use of Johnson's salary that was more worthwhile.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like a desperate agent that is trying like hell to get his client signed to a deal. There is no chance this rumor emanated from the warehouse. I find it hard to believe that DD would divulge such information to an agent. Unless he's using PAs reputation as leverage for a better deal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If there was nobody worth signing, then why trade Johnson in the first place?

If the Johnson trade was supposed to be about reallocation of resources, then Duquette must have believed that there was some alternative use of Johnson's salary that was more worthwhile.

Yes, Webb + Balfour

How can folks not see this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I've posted before, the only rational explanation I can come up with for Angelos not going all-out to try to build a team that will give him one last shot at the World Series is his desire to hoard cash so that, after estate taxes, his heirs will not be cash-strapped in running the team (including, possibly, extending Hardy or signing Davis, Weiters and/or Machado).

I would love to think that he's preparing to try to sell the team, but the kinds of financial commitments to a SP or DH that we're talking about wouldn't reduce interest in, or have an effect on, the price of a billion-dollar asset. To the contrary, if you believed (as most of us do) that a couple of signings costing $20 million dollars a year would enhance the chances of building a contender and boosting fan enthusiasm and attendance, they could the current owners' efforts to generate interest and get a higher price.

Based on the information I have seen, Angelos' thrift can be explained only by his irrationality or by estate planning concerns.

Great. So we get the joy of watching the team underachieve until Peter Angelos dies, after which we'll get the joy of watching his children running the team.

Where's eminent domain when you need it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Getting older . Passing it on to his sons to sell or take over.

Maryland is one of only 14 states that taxes the assets left by deceased residents, and one of only seven states that taxes inheritance, the levy heirs must pay on the money left to them, according to an October report by legislative staff. New Jersey and Maryland are the only two states that impose both a tax on the deceased?s assets, and a tax on any money given to heirs.

Maryland now taxes estates worth over $1 million at 16%. The federal government now excludes the first $5 million of estates from taxes, but takes 40% of anything over that.

More than three years after the death of Carl Pohlad, the estate of the billionaire business magnate is mired in a tax dispute with the IRS that has potentially huge financial consequences.

The agency claims that Pohlad?s heirs owe the IRS more than $207 million, largely on the basis of a purportedly low valuation the estate placed on the late patriarch?s most visible asset, the Minnesota Twins. The tax collector also wants $48 million as an ?accuracy related penalty? for a total potential tax bill of $255.8 million.

The Pohlad family disputes the IRS position and asserts that the federal agency greatly overvalued Carl Pohlad?s interest in the Twins after he handed most of the control of the ballclub to his sons in the years leading up to his death in 2009. ...

According to the experts hired by the estate, Carl Pohlad?s interest in the Twins was just $24 million at the time of his death in early 2009. The IRS places the value of those assets at $293 million.

The Pohlad estate asserts that Carl Pohlad?s minority ownership of the Twins at the time of his death ? with his three sons controlling 90% of the voting shares of the club ? is not adequately reflected in the IRS valuation, nor is the Great Recession, which confronted the U.S. economy at the time. ... The Pohlad estate has requested a Tax Court trial in Houston, home of the law firm handling its tax case, Baker Botts. ... At $255.8 million, the dispute would be among the richest pending before the Tax Court. ...

Combined, Carl Pohlad?s financial interest in the Twins was posted at just shy of $24 million, according to the Tax Court petition. The total value of the Twins at the time of Pohlad?s death was estimated at $356 million by Forbes magazine. But [John] Porter, the Baker Botts attorney representing the Pohlads in the IRS matter, said the valuation figures are gross figures that don?t include liabilities such as stadium debt. Moreover, Porter said, the economic environment was not conducive to the sale of sports franchises at the time of Carl Pohlad?s death.

http://marylandreporter.com/2014/01/09/assembly-leaders-agree-on-cutting-estate-taxes/

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2013/07/2009-estate-.html

Chicken Dinner.

img_100_roast_dinner_xsw.jpg%3Fw%3D630

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, Webb + Balfour

How can folks not see this?

So you think that the ONLY players Duquette wanted to sign this offseason were Webb and Balfour? So that once Balfour fell through the cracks there was NOBODY ELSE that Duquette thought was worthwhile to spend the money on?

If so, that's pretty dumb strategy on Duquette's part, don't you think? Trading your closer on the belief that you'll be able to sign Grant Balfour, and only Grant Balfour, with no plan B in case something goes wrong?

Isn't it more likely that Duquette had plenty of plan B's, but all of them were shot down by the man upstairs in the end?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How does Angelos have the time when he is at the White House for State dinner for French President?

Mr. Peter G. Angelos, Baltimore, MD

Mrs. Georgia Angelos

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/02/11/expected-attendees-tonight-s-state-dinner

No WONDER he is not returning Dan calls about a deal for a DH! I don't see Scott Boras on that list either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you think that the ONLY players Duquette wanted to sign this offseason were Webb and Balfour? So that once Balfour fell through the cracks there was NOBODY ELSE that Duquette thought was worthwhile to spend the money on?

If so, that's pretty dumb strategy on Duquette's part, don't you think? Trading your closer on the belief that you'll be able to sign Grant Balfour, and only Grant Balfour, with no plan B in case something goes wrong?

Isn't it more likely that Duquette had plenty of plan B's, but all of them were shot down by the man upstairs in the end?

I don't think Peter Angelos knows anyone on this team other than Nick and Adam. Well maybe he knows about that guy who hit the homers. The guy Scott keeps calling him about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If so, that's pretty dumb strategy on Duquette's part, don't you think? Trading your closer on the belief that just about any relief pitcher can close with a three run save rule at 84% percent efficiency.

It's true. They can. Even Kevin Gregg.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




  • Posts

    • Yeah the amenities are pretty outdated at the yard and they seem to do nothing year over year to improve them. The touchscreens have been banged on to death to the point they barely function, so you can't accurately fill out your order at the kiosks, and they don't have a way for the people behind the counter to ring you up at many of the food places. The sound is low to non-existent in certain sections of the club level, like around 218. Seems like there should be speakers that reach there but they might have been damaged by rain, etc. and they are too lazy to fix them. If you go to a game that's even slightly busy, you will wait forever to get into the bathroom, and the sink will be an absolute mess with no soap or paper towels. It's even worse on the club level where they have one sink that's right by the door. Nearby businesses don't care, either. The Hilton parking garage reeks of decay, pot and human waste. They don't turn on the air circulation fans, even if cars are waiting for an hour and a half to exit from P3, filling up the air with carbon monoxide. They only let you enter the stadium with one 20 oz bottle of water. It's so expensive to buy a drink or water in the stadium, but with all the salty food, 20 oz of water isn't enough, especially on a hot day. Vegetarian food options are poor to none, other than things like chips, fries, hot pretzels and the occasional pizza. Vida Taco is better, but at an inconvenient location for many seats. The doors on the club level are not accessible. They're anti-accessible. Big, heavy doors you have to go through to get to/from the escalators, and big, heavy doors to get to your seats, none of them automatic (or even with the option to be automatic with a button press). Makes it hard to carry food out to your seats even if not handicapped. The furniture in the lounges on the club level seem designed to allow as few people as possible to sit down. Not great when we have so many rain delays during the season. Should put more, smaller chairs in and allow more of the club level ticket holders to have a seat while waiting for thunderstorms to pass. They keep a lot of the entrance/exit gates closed except for playoff/sellout games, which means people have to slowly "mooooo" all the way down Eutaw St to get to parking. They are too cheap to staff all the gates, so they make people exit by the warehouse, even though it would be a lot more convenient for many fans to open all the gates. Taking Light Rail would be super convenient, except that if there's at least 20k fans in attendance, it's common to have to wait 90-120 minutes to be able to board a non-full train heading toward Glen Burnie. A few trains might come by, but they are already full, or fill up fast when folks walk up to the Convention Center stop to pre-empt the folks trying to board at Camden Station. None of the garages in the area are set up to require pre-payment on entry (reservation, or give them your card / digital payment at the entrance till). If they were, emptying out the garage would be very quick, as they wouldn't need to ticket anyone on the way out: if you can't get in without paying, you can always just leave without having to stop and scan your phone or put a ticket in the machine. They shut down the Sports Legends Museum at Camden Station in 2015 because the Maryland Stadium Authority was too greedy. That place was a fun distraction if you were in the area when a game wasn't about to start, like if you show up super early on Opening Day or a playoff day. Superbook's restaurant on Eutaw is a huge downgrade from Dempsey's in terms of menu and service quality. Dempsey's used to be well-staffed, you could reserve a table online, and they had all kinds of great selection for every diet. Superbook seems like just another bar serving the same swill that the rest of the park serves, with extremely minimal and low-quality food. For that matter, most of the food at the stadium is very low quality these days. A lot of things we used to love are made to a lower standard now if they are served at all. These are gripes about the stadium and the area that haven't changed my entire adult life. Going to an O's game requires one to tolerate many small inconveniences and several major inconveniences, any number of which could easily be fixed by the relevant authorities if they gave a damn about the people who pay to come see the team play. You would think a mid-market team would be able to afford to invest in the fan experience. You would think the city and partnering organizations like garages, the Stadium Authority and MTA would at least try to do their part to make the experience enjoyable and free of kinks. You would think they would put some thought into handling the "growing pains" of the fanbase due to recent renewed interest after the dark years. Instead, all we get is the same indifference and the same annoyances year in and year out. The whole area is overdue for a revamp. Not sure if $600 mil will get it done, but at least it's a start. Hopefully they can start to patch up some of the many holes in the fan experience. If you're not going to invest in Burnes, at least make it so paying customers have an easier, more enjoyable time getting to/from the stadium and having some food while we're there.
    • Elias has only been in rebuild mode with the O's so there's not much to speculate on there.  Houston, where he spent his formative years, doesn't seem to like to be on the hook for more than a couple of big long-term contracts at any given time.  I can see that as being Elias' choice as well, albeit with a lower overall cost - Houston runs a big payroll.  But it's all guesswork.  I really don't know. If Elias takes the 2025 payroll to $150 million it will creep up to $200 million or so by 2028 just from keeping the core together.  That's where I start to wonder about sustainability due to market size, economic forces, etc., etc., etc... If it were up to me, I would add a couple of free agents this offseason even if the contracts were longer than ideal and be conservative about extensions elsewhere until the prospects establish themselves a little better.  I think there's a competitive opportunity that the team is already into that's worth exploiting. I think ownership is very happy to have Elias on board and they're not inclined to force him to do anything.  I also think Rubenstein's demonstrated business prowess is great enough to assume that he has had plenty enough time to come to a mutual understanding with Elias as to goals.
    • We need a RH O’hearn…in addition to Westburg. At least 3 batters that will push up the pitch count and cause damage in the top 5 of the lineup.
    • Boy,  that Jackson Merrill is a good young player that is playing his best ball down the season stretch and in the playoffs.   He's only 21.  I guess some young guys are able to play up to the pressure.   Who could have guessed that?
    • I’m aware.   You are arguing something im Not.
    • What agreement? The agreement you are talking about happened as a result of the move.  The MASN agreement would not have existed if Angelos had gone to court to block the move.
    • I’m saying the Os had an agreement with MLB and that should have held up.  Been pretty clear about that. 
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...