Zach Britton is Too Filthy for the Pen

[Flash- bd]

I think you make some good points here. The only thing intake exception with is the end. Jimenez didn't pitch today. Why must we seemingly find a way to have a pity party or feel bad about the Os every time something good happens? Britton pitches well out of the pen, we lament the ubaldo signing three starts in. Flaherty looks good, we piss and moan that buck road Roberts (too much deference to vets!) when he was healthy last season. Steve clevenger makes a hit, we complain about Wieters or at least make comments about how replaceable he is. Anyone works a good at bat with 6,7 or more pitches and we scream "Adam, are you watching!?!?" Heck, if Adam has a good PA patience-wise it seems that all anyone wants to talk about is every other PA he's had in his career, exaggerated or otherwise. Sometimes, to quote one of my favorite lines from Breaking Bad, we need to learn to take yes for an answer.

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I get you, man. I think I can say without being too kind to myself that I'm not much of a moaner. When a player is "one of ours" I will defend them nearly to the death-- if you read my posts (not exactly a recommendable use of time )you will see that nearly 50% of them are me being absurdly over-the-top-optimistic about Ryan mainly because I feel he is "one of ours", I like him, and I like to offset the haters energy as much as I can (one good deed at a time...). The time I posted here the most, 2012, I think I was told off numerous times for being far too bleeping optimistic about Tillman, Arrieta, and Britton (it turns out I was, in at least one of those cases).

My problem with Jimenez is simple: he's not "one of ours", and he's blocking a few ones of ours, and the money paid to him is also potentially really complicating retaining a few "ones of ours" (promise this is the last time I use this clumsy phrase in this post). I don't think he's bad or anything, for the record, I tend towards the optimistic take with him as I do with most. I just think even in that optimistic case he's still making about $10m more than someone (Gausman/Britton/Bundy) who is unlikely to be much of a downgrade from him in the short-term and likely to be an upgrade on him in the long-term.

[LA2]

This. I was thinking Rodrigo Lopez when he was killing it in the pen as a 2-3 IP guy. That's very valuable.

Wasn't a bad starter either.

[cmurter]

Britton is filling an important role for the Orioles, especially considering the fact that their starter's aren't exactly know for going deep in game outside of Tillman and Jimenez to a lesser extent.

He's filling the Arthur Rhodes, three inning shut down reliever role and it's something I was hoping that the Orioles would fiill given their rotation.

I realize that it's tempting to think Britton would be just as good as a starter, but remember, he's pitching from the stretch and almost primarily having these results by throwing one pitch, a hard sinking fastball.

Add in the fact that Britton generally uses a lot of pitches per inning, and he would really be a five or six inning starter. I'd much rather see him pitch in this role that saves the bullpen and is still able to get some key outs when needed. Britton has been huge for this team in this role.

I think it's his best role.

I agree. It is his best role. Bottom line, Britton>>>>McFarland in somewhat equivalent roles this year vs last. Let him thrive in this role as long as possible

[blid]

I don't see the issue with having a reliable reliever in the bullpen who can go multiple innings, especially with our pitch count issues. Sometimes players just thrive more in different roles, and I think Zach is in the role he is best at now.

I can totally see this, and I absolutely don't want to disregard this point of view. Because you're right, I can see him thriving in this role.

But at the same time, just because one thing's working does not mean it can't be capitalized on even more. Babe Ruth was a great pitcher, yet he ended up swinging the bat full time and was even better.

OK, OK. Extreme example. But it's not always the case that you can't get more out of what you have. Jesse Chavez has been dominating as a starter so far this season for the A's, after playing last season as a reliever. Chris Sale entered the majors as a reliever. CJ Wilson as well I believe? If you have someone who's excelling in a smaller role, never offering him a larger one could end up squandering potential, and could end up not maximizing returns.

Maybe it's like standing at 16.

[scOtt]

To my surprise, Scott's memory is good. Here's pitch f/x datas from Zach's second start of 2011, in which his FB averaged 94 and touched 97: http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=4&day=9&year=2011&game=gid_2011_04_09_texmlb_balmlb_1%2F&pitchSel=502154&prevGame=gid_2011_04_09_texmlb_balmlb_1%2F&prevDate=49&league=mlb I'm not saying he did that every game, but he was capable of dialing it up to 97 on occasion.

My surprise too!

[Norfolk orioles]

Britton is filling an important role for the Orioles, especially considering the fact that their starter's aren't exactly know for going deep in game outside of Tillman and Jimenez to a lesser extent.

He's filling the Arthur Rhodes, three inning shut down reliever role and it's something I was hoping that the Orioles would fiill given their rotation.

I realize that it's tempting to think Britton would be just as good as a starter, but remember, he's pitching from the stretch and almost primarily having these results by throwing one pitch, a hard sinking fastball.

Add in the fact that Britton generally uses a lot of pitches per inning, and he would really be a five or six inning starter. I'd much rather see him pitch in this role that saves the bullpen and is still able to get some key outs when needed. Britton has been huge for this team in this role.

I think it's his best role.

Chen throws a lot of pitches too and barely gets 6 most games.

Personally I'd rather see a healthy Britton be the starter, Chen be the 2-3 inning pitcher who can fulfill the exact role Britton is doing right now and it would save his arm for later in the season/playoffs (hopefully).

Britton has the much better stuff, could be a much more effective starter with what he is displaying now and while he does use a lot of pitches, he doesn't seem to wear down the way Chen does at around 100 pitches.

If anything sometimes his sinker becomes even more effective.

Just a consideration and my 2 cents but when you have a guy with stuff that is absolutely electric like his is right now, a middle reliever seems like a bit of a waste.

You don't see a lot of dodgers fans clamoring for kershaw to pitch middle relief. His stuff is borderline elite right now. I say stretch him out, start him and if he can't maintain throughout 7 innings, no harm no foul, move him back to his current role but don't sit on stuff THIS good.

[Frobby]

Chen throws a lot of pitches too and barely gets 6 most games.

As I pointed out the other day, Chen doesn't throw a lot of pitches. He averaged 16.0 per inning last year. That was second lowest among the Oriole starters.

Britton also has averaged 16.0 pitches per inning in his career, but has been more efficient this year at 14.2. Whether he could maintain that (or even the 16.0) as a starter is unknown.

The big question, I suppose, is whether Britton is pitching so well this year because (1) his stuff plays up as a reliever, or (2) he has made improvements that also would carry over as a starter. In my opinion, it doesn't have to be either/or. There were a lot of reports that Britton had made big adjustments before he ever walked into camp this season. He's showing command of his sinker that he never had before, regardless of what role he pitched in. Yet, pitching in relief helps him too.

Bottom line is, we'll never know how he'd do as a starter this year unless he's put in that role. But there isn't a strong reason to try that right now. He's adding a lot of value in the role he's in, and it's way too early to fool with our current rotation.

[Tony-OH]

You don't see a lot of dodgers fans clamoring for kershaw to pitch middle relief. His stuff is borderline elite right now. I say stretch him out, start him and if he can't maintain throughout 7 innings, no harm no foul, move him back to his current role but don't sit on stuff THIS good.

Easy there fella. His sinking fastball while coming out in relief and while pitching from the stretch has been a plus-plus pitch.

If the Orioles want to stretch him back for next season and give him a chance to start I'd have no problems with that. This season though, unless there is a huge need, I'm keeping him where he is. He's much more than some "middle reliever". He's the guy you can give the ball to in a close game and eat up some innings or you can give him the ball in extra innings and save your bullpen. That's very valuable. Britton's effect on the rest of the pen is huge.

I really do understand the ethusiasm for Britton right now and I'm glad he's pitching so well, but I think all the signs indicate he's in his best role and that's why he's getting the uptick in stuff with the sinking fastball. Again, if we saw him coming out and dominating with three pitches I'd be more apt to consider starting him, but right now he's a guy pitching very well in a role suited perfectly for him.

[weams]

I get you, man. I think I can say without being too kind to myself that I'm not much of a moaner. When a player is "one of ours" I will defend them nearly to the death-- if you read my posts (not exactly a recommendable use of time )you will see that nearly 50% of them are me being absurdly over-the-top-optimistic about Ryan mainly because I feel he is "one of ours", I like him, and I like to offset the haters energy as much as I can (one good deed at a time...). The time I posted here the most, 2012, I think I was told off numerous times for being far too bleeping optimistic about Tillman, Arrieta, and Britton (it turns out I was, in at least one of those cases).

My problem with Jimenez is simple: he's not "one of ours", and he's blocking a few ones of ours, and the money paid to him is also potentially really complicating retaining a few "ones of ours" (promise this is the last time I use this clumsy phrase in this post). I don't think he's bad or anything, for the record, I tend towards the optimistic take with him as I do with most. I just think even in that optimistic case he's still making about $10m more than someone (Gausman/Britton/Bundy) who is unlikely to be much of a downgrade from him in the short-term and likely to be an upgrade on him in the long-term.

Whether you like it...He's one of ours. And a day will come, that you will embrace that.

[weams]

Easy there fella. His sinking fastball while coming out in relief and while pitching from the stretch has been a plus-plus pitch.

If the Orioles want to stretch him back for next season and give him a chance to start I'd have no problems with that.This season though, unless there is a huge need, I'm keeping him where he is. He's much more than some "middle reliever". He's the guy you can give the ball to in a close games and eat up some innings or you can give the ball to in extra innings and save your bullpen. That's very valuable.

I really do understand the ethusiasm for Britton right now and I'm glad he's pitching so well, but I think all the signs indicate he's in his best role and that's why he's getting the uptick in stuff with the sinking fastball. Again, if we saw him coming out and dominating with three pitches I'd be more apt to consider starting him, but right now he's a guy pitching very well in a role suited perfectly for him.

No one comments when I post John Parrish's run when he did his amazing 12 game stint for us. With a sinker. From the left.

[weams]

Easy there fella. His sinking fastball while coming out in relief and while pitching from the stretch has been a plus-plus pitch.

If the Orioles want to stretch him back for next season and give him a chance to start I'd have no problems with that. This season though, unless there is a huge need, I'm keeping him where he is. He's much more than some "middle reliever". He's the guy you can give the ball to in a close game and eat up some innings or you can give him the ball in extra innings and save your bullpen. That's very valuable. Britton's effect on the rest of the pen is huge.

I really do understand the ethusiasm for Britton right now and I'm glad he's pitching so well, but I think all the signs indicate he's in his best role and that's why he's getting the uptick in stuff with the sinking fastball. Again, if we saw him coming out and dominating with three pitches I'd be more apt to consider starting him, but right now he's a guy pitching very well in a role suited perfectly for him.

Any post or comment from a manager that compares any pitcher with Kershaw, immediately draws much criticism. And rightly.

[Roll Tide]

I'm sorry, but if this continues, we really need to consider whether he should be back in the rotation. This is the guy we were all drooling over 3 years ago, velocity + sink + control. Don't we owe it to this team to not waste this on the bullpen forever if there is a chance he could do it for 200+ innings a year instead of just 70? Certainly I think he has to be a candidate for some saves if we aren't going to stretch him out. Just my opinion -- what do you all think??

That said, way to go Zach! Glad to have you back (and glad the O's never gave you up).

I said this after watching Britton in the spring. I thing Norris goes at some point if he struggles. Any personally I have nothing against Norris but I just don't think he has a MLB out pitch.

[Roll Tide]

Chen throws a lot of pitches too and barely gets 6 most games.

Personally I'd rather see a healthy Britton be the starter, Chen be the 2-3 inning pitcher who can fulfill the exact role Britton is doing right now and it would save his arm for later in the season/playoffs (hopefully).

Britton has the much better stuff, could be a much more effective starter with what he is displaying now and while he does use a lot of pitches, he doesn't seem to wear down the way Chen does at around 100 pitches.

If anything sometimes his sinker becomes even more effective.

Just a consideration and my 2 cents but when you have a guy with stuff that is absolutely electric like his is right now, a middle reliever seems like a bit of a waste.

You don't see a lot of dodgers fans clamoring for kershaw to pitch middle relief. His stuff is borderline elite right now. I say stretch him out, start him and if he can't maintain throughout 7 innings, no harm no foul, move him back to his current role but don't sit on stuff THIS good.

Holly Smokes:eek: Comparing Britton to Clayton Kershaw is a bit premature.

[weams]

I said this after watching Britton in the spring. I thing Norris goes at some point if he struggles. Any personally I have nothing against Norris but I just don't think he has a MLB out pitch.

Bud Norris has succeeded as a MLB starting pitcher. He may fail in the future, but he has succeeded. Something our Lefty has not done.

[Tony-OH]

No one comments when I post John Parrish's run when he did his amazing 12 game stint for us. With a sinker. From the left.

JP did have a great run for awhile that season . saying that, Britton was always a better overall prospect than Parrish, especially due to having better command.

I can under stand the excitement some people have when they watch a guy dominate in releif and I can understand the thought process that wonders if he could do this as a starter. If he dominates all year as a reliever, I could see the Orioles giving him a shot next year as a starter again, but I'll still want to see him use three pitches before I'll believe he can be a solid starter.

One thing people forget is that Britton's changeup was a decent offering during his successful starting days when he first came up. We haven't really seen that pitch in awhile. I'm enjoying Britton's success as much as anyone because I've always been a big supporter of his and I like the guy personally, but for now, there is no reason to seriously consider moving him to the rotation right now.