New Sun article: Roberts/Penn vs Giles/LaRoche to be avoided by Angelos

[AgentOrange]

The only problem with LaRoche is that he has Attention Deficit Disorder and sometimes forgets what he is doing. I saw him field a grounder and run off the field without tagging the bag or runner. No big deal I guess.

Easy now. I have ADD and lead quite a successful life that is more complicated than picking up a baseball and tagging the runner.

I am sure it was more of a mental lapse on the field that players go through than attributed to his ADD.

[Mashed Potatoes]

The centerpiece of this deal, Laroche, scares me. He's been so heavily platooned in his ML career that his numbers are inflated.

1087 ABs vs. Righties

180 ABs vs. Lefties

That's a 6-1 ratio, and his career OPS vs. lefties is .736

He'd be an upgrade no doubt, but I think we should be looking at really young first baseman, age 22-24 range, not a 27 year old. Penn's value is as low as it gets IMO. Giles is a FA after next season. I'll pass.

[Mackus]

How long until LaRoche would be a free agent?

He's got 2 years exactly of service time.

So 1 more really cheap year, and then 3 arbitration years.

If he keeps up at the 30 HR, .900 OPS pace (even if he's only a mid .700s guy v LHP) then this deal is a bargain.

[Mackus]

The centerpiece of this deal, Laroche, scares me. He's been so heavily platooned in his ML career that his numbers are inflated.

1087 ABs vs. Righties

180 ABs vs. Lefties

That's a 6-1 ratio, and his career OPS vs. lefties is .736

He'd be an upgrade no doubt, but I think we should be looking at really young first baseman, age 22-24 range, not a 27 year old. Penn's value is as low as it gets IMO. Giles is a FA after next season. I'll pass.

That .736 isn't an awful number against LHP, and it'll probably go up a bit as he gets more ABs against them. If he's putting up a .950 OPS v RHP, it can be forgiven.

I agree that I don't like getting Giles in this deal all that much, but if we could swing him to SD for either a young OF or package him and maybe get Peavy, I'd make the move.

[Mackus]

He's got 2 years exactly of service time.

So 1 more really cheap year, and then 3 arbitration years.

If he keeps up at the 30 HR, .900 OPS pace (even if he's only a mid .700s guy v LHP) then this deal is a bargain.

Scratch that, Cot's hasn't updated their service time yet.

He's had 3 full years, so he'll be arbitration eligible this year, and a FA after 2009.

[AgentOrange]

That .736 isn't an awful number against LHP, and it'll probably go up a bit as he gets more ABs against them. If he's putting up a .950 OPS v RHP, it can be forgiven.

I agree that I don't like getting Giles in this deal all that much, but if we could swing him to SD for either a young OF or package him and maybe get Peavy, I'd make the move.

I don't know why, but I am pretty pumped about this deal.

I think it would spring board into something with SD, something that would benefit the O's greatly.

And we can over-spend for Lugo and he may want to come here because if those moves happen, we wouldn't be too far off from having a 85+ win team.

[erb8472]

I don't know why, but I am pretty pumped about this deal.

I think it would spring board into something with SD, something that would benefit the O's greatly.

And we can over-spend for Lugo and he may want to come here because if those moves happen, we wouldn't be too far off from having a 85+ win team.

Why wouldn't we just make a 3 way trade.

Bal sends Roberts Benson and Gibbons to SD.

SD sends Peavy to Tex

Tex sends Tex to Bal

[Mashed Potatoes]

That .736 isn't an awful number against LHP, and it'll probably go up a bit as he gets more ABs against them. If he's putting up a .950 OPS v RHP, it can be forgiven.

I agree that I don't like getting Giles in this deal all that much, but if we could swing him to SD for either a young OF or package him and maybe get Peavy, I'd make the move.

Maybe, maybe not. 180 ABs is a small sample size, it could swing heavily one way or the other in a full time role. However if Atlanta, the team that knows him best, was only comfortable using him 180 times vs. lefties in 3 years, that worries me.

And that's a huuuuuuugggggeeee if about moving him for Peavy. Given our track record, making a trade with the hopes of pulling off a better trade with the new pieces doesn't seem likely.

[Mackus]

I don't know why, but I am pretty pumped about this deal.

I think it would spring board into something with SD, something that would benefit the O's greatly.

And we can over-spend for Lugo and he may want to come here because if those moves happen, we wouldn't be too far off from having a 85+ win team.

I'd only make the move if we already have something in place with SD, or if we just skip the middleman and make it a straight up 3-way deal.

I don't know how serious SD was about trading Peavy, and they've probably gotten less so since the price of pitching got so out of control, but I'd give up almost the entire rest of the farm system if we could get Peavy and LaRoche without giving up Bedard, Loewen, Cabrera, Ray, Rowell, or Beato. Thats a slight exaggeration, but I'd have no problems adding in any 2-3 prospects along with Roberts, Penn, and maybe Gibby to get something like that done. We could even send SD someone like Benson / Wright to replace Peavy in the rotation.

[Mackus]

Why wouldn't we just make a 3 way trade.

Bal sends Roberts Benson and Gibbons to SD.

SD sends Peavy to Tex

Tex sends Tex to Bal

I'd rather have Peavy than Tex.

[AgentOrange]

Why wouldn't we just make a 3 way trade.

Bal sends Roberts Benson and Gibbons to SD.

SD sends Peavy to Tex

Tex sends Tex to Bal

I don't know. All of those players only fill 1 hole and opens 2.

I would rather have LaRoche, Ben Johnson and Lugo if possible.

I mean Lugo can be had in your situation as well. I just really like Ben.

[AgentOrange]

I'd only make the move if we already have something in place with SD, or if we just skip the middleman and make it a straight up 3-way deal.

I don't know how serious SD was about trading Peavy, and they've probably gotten less so since the price of pitching got so out of control, but I'd give up almost the entire rest of the farm system if we could get Peavy and LaRoche without giving up Bedard, Loewen, Cabrera, Ray, Rowell, or Beato. Thats a slight exaggeration, but I'd have no problems adding in any 2-3 prospects along with Roberts, Penn, and maybe Gibby to get something like that done. We could even send SD someone like Benson / Wright to replace Peavy in the rotation.

I think I would rather have Johnson if it only means Giles.

Peavy I would wet my pants, but I think he would cost us too much, IMO.

[Baltoravensrule]

I don't do this trade because Penn is at his lowest value he will ever be at. I think he is worth alot more in a package with any starter. (Brob is this case)

[ijoshyounot]

Here is the way I see it: Roberts did not REALLY hit like a leadoff last year. We want a high avg high obp hitter who can read the pitcher really well and be leader for the rest of the team. Roberts was a leader (I think?) but the other two, not so much. He also had a big disparity between left handed and right handed pitchers, kind of defeating the purpose of switch hitting. Giles also did not have a season good enough to lead off last year having a bit lower average than Roberts, but could also get back to his past success. Both second basement you have a risk. Penn, however, is also a risk. There is such a thing as a prospect that does well in AAA and just cannot put it together in the majors. He's only 21 and that may not be the case with him, but he is still a risk. LaRoche is as close to guarenteed success at first that we will be able to get this offseason. So we are trading two risks for one risk and a success. It sucks knowing that Roberts may have a batting-title eligible year again, but baseball is a betting game and sometimes you have to look at the odds and say "it sure seems like this is the right thing to do, even if my gut says otherwise" My guy here wants to keep Roberts, but it is clear that we should pull the trigger on this thinking rationally.

EDIT: one last point... Giles can be moved to third if and when we want him to. Mora can be moved around too. It is nice to have flexibility like that, especially when we could end up signing Loretta or someone like that and putting Giles at 3rd and Mora in Left.

[erb8472]

I'd rather have Peavy than Tex.

So in your deal we add Peavy and LaRoche.

That isn't bad plus we could still sign Lugo for second base.

Maybe the real reason we were rumored to be talking to Lugo several weeks ago was because we thoguht about trading Roberts, and not because of a Tejada trade.