New Sun article: Roberts/Penn vs Giles/LaRoche to be avoided by Angelos

[osfan83]

Silly to say that Angelos should stay out of this. Roberts and Tejada are the faces of the franchise. When you are looking to deal one or the other the owner has to be involved. This is a business folks. The idea is to make money. The backlash of trading a player as popular as Roberts has to be considered. Roberts has the type of dynamic persona that teams look for to put people in the seats. You have to consider that as an owner when a trade is being made. And there is not an owner in baseball that would not have input on a deal like this.

I think I have to go with BigBird on this one because Giles becomes a free agent. I am also a little concerned that Schurholtz knows something that we don't know about LaRoche and Giles. The Braves don't get fleeced very often.

Maybe we know something about Roberts and Penn that they don't.

[Mackus]

So in your deal we add Peavy and LaRoche.

That isn't bad plus we could still sign Lugo for second base.

Maybe the real reason we were rumored to be talking to Lugo several weeks ago was because we thoguht about trading Roberts, and not because of a Tejada trade.

I think Lugo is going to get a lot of money, so I don't know if I'd prefer him at 2B or to look for someone else in trade, but he would be one option to replace Roberts if we move him.

[BoysofArbutus]

i just signed on and you guys have been going at it for hours already. So i don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but i'll just toss it in the hopper

From ESPN's Rumor Mill, it lists the Braves as having interest in Richie Sexson. This would make sense if they are set on dealing LaRoche.

Any chance we could get in some sort of 3-way deal here? I don't know what it would take, but if we could toss something in there and maybe get more bang for our buck, would it be possible?

[erb8472]

I think Lugo is going to get a lot of money, so I don't know if I'd prefer him at 2B or to look for someone else in trade, but he would be one option to replace Roberts if we move him.

Well you would need a leadoff hitter from somewhere, and Lugo is really the only guy left on the FA market that has any experience.

[Go_Os]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.orioles05dec05,0,6371035.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball

"According to several industry sources, the Orioles have had serious discussions about a deal that would send second baseman Brian Roberts and pitching prospect Hayden Penn to the Atlanta Braves for power-hitting first baseman Adam LaRoche and second baseman Marcus Giles.

The deal has "several hurdles," according to a source familiar with the trade talks, with a major one being Peter Angelos' preference to keep Roberts, who has long been a favorite of the Orioles' owner"

Same old story with Angelos. I think if you can get Giles to sign an extension you'd have to make that deal, but what do I know. It's just so frustrating that the owner would rather keep one or two fan favourites and loose, instead of making this ballclub win again.

I'm sorry, but Roberts AND Penn for Giles and Laroche is not a good deal. First, I love Roberts and want him here. Second, I really don't want to give up on young pitching. I know that people say that we over-value our own prospects, but Penn is too valueable, IMO. Third, Giles is coming off a bad year and is a free agent next year. Fourth, Laroche is not what I consider to be a stud first baseman. He had a good year last year, but I don't think he's that good. Finally, Schuerholz typically is not on the wrong end of trades normally. If he values Roberts and Penn that highly then that's enough validation to me to keep them.

The only way I'd deal Roberts is if we knew for certain that we could sign Lugo, who I like very much. However, it appears that he's headed to Boston. Let's just trade R-Lo for Jenkins or Mench, and keep our young talent. If we trade Penn I would like for us to get a young OF like Adam Jones in return.

[Ruzious]

Which O's fans? The knowledgeable ones who, for the most part, visit this board or Joe everyday fan. Before you take another sentence out of context, no one is saying Brob is the player Jeter is. I would clearly argue he is as popular among O's fans as Jeter is to Yankee fans.

It's that kind of mentality that had the O's being content to stay with guys like BJ Surhoff and Jeff Conine. If you can improve the team by trading Roberts, you do it. There's no reason for sentimentality when you lose 90 games every year.

[Go_Os]

It's that kind of mentality that had the O's being content to stay with guys like BJ Surhoff and Jeff Conine. If you can improve the team by trading Roberts, you do it. There's no reason for sentimentality when you lose 90 games every year.

Agree, but Roberts and Penn for Giles and Laroche is not a good deal.

[Ruzious]

If Giles was such a solid leadoff guy, akin to Roberts, than the Braves wouldn't be wanting Roberts.

It's an NL vs AL thing. The NL puts much more emphasis on speed from the leadoff man. The Braves had Furcal as leadoff for several years (with a lot of success) even though he was a lousy on base guy. In the AL, on base is looked at with a lot more importance at the leadoff spot. Whether or not the difference makes sense is another question. But I think that's the perception - which is sometimes more important than reality.

[BoysofArbutus]

I'm sorry, but Roberts AND Penn for Giles and Laroche is not a good deal. First, I love Roberts and want him here. Second, I really don't want to give up on young pitching. I know that people say that we over-value our own prospects, but Penn is too valueable, IMO. Third, Giles is coming off a bad year and is a free agent next year. Fourth, Laroche is not what I consider to be a stud first baseman. He had a good year last year, but I don't think he's that good. Finally, Schuerholz typically is not on the wrong end of trades normally. If he values Roberts and Penn that highly then that's enough validation to me to keep them.

The only way I'd deal Roberts is if we knew for certain that we could sign Lugo, who I like very much. However, it appears that he's headed to Boston. Let's just trade R-Lo for Jenkins or Mench, and keep our young talent. If we trade Penn I would like for us to get a young OF like Adam Jones in return.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here.

Let's say we make this deal, then send RLo to Milwaukee for Mench.

I will be set running a line up of

Giles 2nd

Mora 3rd

Markakis RF

Tejada SS

LaRoche 1st

Mench LF

Gibbons DH

Hernandez C

Patterson CF

That is against a left handed pitcher or not. The majority of pitchers in baseball are right handed, and LaRoche only hits 3-4 times a game anyway. I don't see him doing any worse then Millar would hitting full time.

[AgentOrange]

Agree, but Roberts and Penn for Giles and Laroche is not a good deal.

Its not a good deal according to you.

We stay the same at 2nd and really upgrade 1b.

We lose a minor league pitcher with potential, but sometimes you have to trade from a strength to add to a weakness. And this is what this deal would accomplish.

[mikezpen]

Roberts has always been way overrated as a leadoff hitter. The only good OBA he had was in 2005 when he had this wild power surge that petered out after the Break.Giles has a better OBA and consistantly better power and slugging %. Defensively, he seems as good.

You have people to platoon w/LaRoche at first if he can't hack it against LH pitching. And BTW, his .241 average against southpaws last year was about the same as that of Millar, who hasn't done crapola against them the past 2 years. Phillips mite be a better platooner than Millar is.

The Orioles have absolutely nothing in their system, and any free agent w/that kind of power would cost them far more than they'd ever be willing to pay.So if they don't make a trade like this, all you'll see is year after year of Millars and Conines at a key power position.

Make the damn trade Angelos!!!!

[Mackus]

Well you would need a leadoff hitter from somewhere, and Lugo is really the only guy left on the FA market that has any experience.

I'm not really too big on traditional roles like leadoff hitter or cleanup hitter. I don't think it makes too terribly big of a difference, and might actually be less effective than just giving your best hitter the #1 spot to get the most at bats over the year, your second best #2 and so on.

I think if we move Roberts, that Mora should lead off. I think his slip in OBP the last couple seasons might be due to his approach of thinking he needs to be a power guy. If he can alter that approach and work on getting on base more, maybe he could get back to being close to a very high .300s OBP guy, and actually come somewhat close to earning that contract he's got.

[AgentOrange]

Roberts has always been way overrated as a leadoff hitter. The only good OBA he had was in 2005 when he had this wild power surge that petered out after the Break.Giles has a better OBA and consistantly better power and slugging %. Defensively, he seems as good.

You have people to platoon w/LaRoche at first if he can't hack it against LH pitching. And BTW, his .241 average against southpaws last year was about the same as that of Millar, who hasn't done crapola against them the past 2 years. Phillips mite be a better platooner than Millar is.

The Orioles have absolutely nothing in their system, and any free agent w/that kind of power would cost them far more than they'd ever be willing to pay.So if they don't make a trade like this, all you'll see is year after year of Millars and Conines at a key power position.

Make the damn trade Angelos!!!!

Good call with the platoon of Phillips.

I wouldn't mind Millar at DH if we get LaRoche and someone of note in LF.

I could handle his .374 OBP with some extra bats in the lineup.

[Go_Os]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here.

Let's say we make this deal, then send RLo to Milwaukee for Mench.

I will be set running a line up of

Giles 2nd

Mora 3rd

Markakis RF

Tejada SS

LaRoche 1st

Mench LF

Gibbons DH

Hernandez C

Patterson CF

That is against a left handed pitcher or not. The majority of pitchers in baseball are right handed, and LaRoche only hits 3-4 times a game anyway. I don't see him doing any worse then Millar would hitting full time.

I agree that the deal makes us incrementally better, but it certainly doesn't make us a contender next year, and Giles is a free agent after next year. That means in 2008 we'll only have Laroche (assuming Giles leaves - which would be likely) left over, instead of still having Penn and Roberts.

[Mackus]

You have people to platoon w/LaRoche at first if he can't hack it against LH pitching. And BTW, his .241 average against southpaws last year was about the same as that of Millar, who hasn't done crapola against them the past 2 years. Phillips mite be a better platooner than Millar is.

.797 OPs last year v LHP, .736 career, so he's not a guy thats gonna kill you against LHP and if he can build on last year, might even be a small asset.

If we acquire him, he starts 150 games at 1B in 2007. If he is down in the low .700s v LHP, then platoon him the next year, if he's hitting well against them, then we've found our 1B for a few years. Unless the pitching really takes off, we're not gonna compete anyways, so it won't be a huge problem to find out how well he hits LHP.