Flaherty...what is the verdict?

[DrungoHazewood]

Of those 34 who played more than one game, how many was plus defenders at two or more of those locations.

As for your second list, how many of play plus defense at more than two or more position.

Like Buck said, there are many people in ML that can play 2 positions with plus defense, however, it's rare to have a guy that can do it at three or more.

And what is that worth? Very little. Buck may like the comfort level he's developed with Flaherty, but I don't think even he would say that there would be a significant impact to swapping out Flaherty with one of those Tides.

When you're in that 20% overlap between the bottom of MLB rosters and AAA rosters it's as much timing and luck and injuries and roster rules as talent that determines who is in the majors and who is on a bus to Des Moines.

[CA-ORIOLE]

He's pretty clearly proven once again that he's not starter material. No progress this year. I had hoped he might develop into a .240-.260 hitter with 20 homer power.

Yeah, even last years production would have been fine with his defense. I'd hoped for a bit of an improvement from last year, but it's just not there. He's clearly struggled to make good contact even though I think his approach at the plate is fine.

[wildcard]

The same John McDonald who's played on eight different MLB teams over 16 years and has never made $2M in a season?

Sounds right to me. He was with the Blue Jays for several years.

[Redskins Rick]

And what is that worth? Very little. Buck may like the comfort level he's developed with Flaherty, but I don't think even he would say that there would be a significant impact to swapping out Flaherty with one of those Tides.

When you're in that 20% overlap between the bottom of MLB rosters and AAA rosters it's as much timing and luck and injuries and roster rules as talent that determines who is in the majors and who is on a bus to Des Moines.

I again respectfully disagree. Many times, he has said he is blessed to have Flash on his bench and able to play a variety of spots well.

How many of those tides can back up SS?

Buck has said many times, the key to your utility guy on the bench. He has to be a backup SS. Not every infielder can play SS.

You have two guys at Norfolk that can play SS.

If they could play better than Flash, I can just about guarantee you, they would be up here, and Flash would be at Norfolk.

So what is Flash worth?

Right now at 512K, he is a bargain, in my opinion.

But, I wouldn't over pay him to keep him.

[DrungoHazewood]

I again respectfully disagree. Many times, he has said he is blessed to have Flash on his bench and able to play a variety of spots well.

How many of those tides can back up SS?

Buck has said many times, the key to your utility guy on the bench. He has to be a backup SS. Not every infielder can play SS.

You have two guys at Norfolk that can play SS.

If they could play better than Flash, I can just about guarantee you, they would be up here, and Flash would be at Norfolk.

So what is Flash worth?

Right now at 512K, he is a bargain, in my opinion.

But, I wouldn't over pay him to keep him.

I never said they were better. I said they were largely interchangeable. No reason to change, but if he gives you one you don't blink an eye.

[Redskins Rick]

I never said they were better. I said they were largely interchangeable. No reason to change, but if he gives you one you don't blink an eye.

Okay, I get where you are coming from.

[wildcard]

That's odd because Baseball reference has Andino at 1.4 dWAR in 2011 (his outlier defensive year) versus .8 for Flaherty this year (I think his .6 year in 2013 was better using the eye test).

Andino in 2011 was every bit the defender that Flaherty has shown to be.

Flaherty is more consistent year over year. He plays SS with less errors. Andino didn't play as well in 2012 as he did in 2011. It got him traded.

[Redskins Rick]

Flaherty is more consistent year over year. He plays SS with less errors. Andino didn't play as well in 2012 as he did in 2011. It got him traded.

He landed a minor league contract in ST and couldn't play well enough to not get shipped down to AAA.

[Can_of_corn]

Flaherty is more consistent year over year. He plays SS with less errors. Andino didn't play as well in 2012 as he did in 2011. It got him traded.

You didn't say that.

You are changing the parameters of your argument.

I could always say that since Flaherty hasn't logged two seasons worth of defensive innings yet we really don't know where he is as a defender.

[Old#5fan]

Yeah, even last years production would have been fine with his defense. I'd hoped for a bit of an improvement from last year, but it's just not there. He's clearly struggled to make good contact even though I think his approach at the plate is fine.[/QUOT

His approach at the plate is fine????? You really that oblivious to his trying to pull everything and hitting tons of grounders to the second baseman or weak popups? He also overswings, like he fancies himself a power hitter, which he certainly isn't unless he gets on a fastball right down the middle and doesn't pop it up.

[Redskins Rick]

His approach at the plate is fine????? You really that oblivious to his trying to pull everything and hitting tons of grounders to the second baseman or weak popups? He also overswings, like he fancies himself a power hitter, which he certainly isn't unless he gets on a fastball right down the middle and doesn't pop it up.

what an absurd comment to make

[DrungoHazewood]

Flaherty is more consistent year over year. He plays SS with less errors. Andino didn't play as well in 2012 as he did in 2011. It got him traded.

When you're constantly flirting with replacement level all it takes is a run of a few errors or a couple months of hitting .150 or whatever and you're Cord Phelps instead of Ryan Flaherty. It's not about the talent, it's about lining up opportunities and personalities and hot streaks.

[DrungoHazewood]

You didn't say that.

You are changing the parameters of your argument.

I could always say that since Flaherty hasn't logged two seasons worth of defensive innings yet we really don't know where he is as a defender.

And I wouldn't call Flaherty consistent, either. His defense is going to be mostly judged subjectively so you can insert any opinion there. But his OPSes by month are:

.348

.419

.528

.851

.661

.848

.442

.538

.820

.400

.797

1.002

.502

.699

.647

.573

.467

It would be difficult to be less consistent on offense. Five months under .500, four over .800.

[Redskins Rick]

Even poor hitters can catch fire and help drive the team in the playoffs, just ask Blade about his 1970 season.

Who would have thought in 1970 while hitting .218, that very same hitter would be a key contributor to a WS championship?

[spiritof66]

With the shorter benches in today's game (by which I mean the decrease in position players on the 25-man, not reconfigured dugouts), the versatility of non-starters is quite valuable. Flaherty's ability to provide quality defense around the infield is unusual, when you compare him to the others mentioned in this thread. (I bet he could catch, and maybe pitch, in an emergency.)

To me, Flaherty differs from the prototypical utility IF in a few respects. Many utility infielders are fast, and many of them have value as pinch runners. Lots of them can bunt, and Flaherty should learn how to do that. Flaherty hits with some real power when he makes contact.

What is disappointing to me is that Flaherty sometimes looks like a capable hitter, especially when he's not pulling the ball, and seems like he should be able to help with this team's biggest weakness by providing a productive lefty bat. But he's been incapable of doing that, and at 28 the chances of that changing are slim. I find it hard to overcome the disappointment that he's not more than a utility IF, but that's what he is. And a good one.