Two Year Window

[weams]

The window concept IMO is a by-product of dealing Jake, likely two top 100 prospects and three top 60 draft picks. Much of our success has been paid forward from our future. I do think there could be some quick replenishment to our system by trading certain players and also letting others leave via FA (with a generous QO). I think there are certain key variables in play noted below:

1) Will our FO go all-in again next year - offering significant contracts to older players like Cruz and Hardy? And perhaps sacrificing more draft picks on other FAs? Does this depend on how well the team does in the playoffs this year?

2) How long is Buck committed to managing in Bmore and how much of a rebuild would he hang around for?

3) What are the internal assessments on Gausman and Bundy? How good will they be and how quickly?

4) How good will the other teams in our division be next year?

5) Can Joseph be a full time catcher and, if so, what can Wieters bring in trade?

I think our FO could put a pretty good team together if we deal Wieters for a quality OF prospect to put into LF, offer QOs and receive draft picks for Hardy and Cruz and cut Davis. That would bring about $30+M in salary back and leave holes at SS and DH to be filled in FA. We could also deal Chen for some quality prospects (perhaps at SS) as well and hope for a turnaround from Ubaldo. That would be a partial re-build that would go with LF prospect, Jones, Markakis, Pearce, Walker, Schoop, Machado, SS prospect, Joseph; Tillman, Ubaldo, Gausman, Norris and MiGon; with Hunter, ODay and Britton while netting additional draft picks, prospects while waiting for Bundy. That should be more than enough of a major league team for Buck to stick around and one to get to a pace of 80-85 wins before seeing if we need are competitive and need to supplement or further tear it down and deal O'Day, Norris and MiGon.

One other interesting aspect IMO is that we have a GM who likes to wheel and deal assets and a coach who appears fairly loyal to his players. I believe there is enough talent in the organization for me to hope there is not a hard landing up ahead that will cause Buck to depart and leave the organization with several years of rebuilding. A lot of those decisions will be made this offseason.

Are talking about trading Wieters in season and forgoing the pic for either team then? That seems to be a poor value.

[weams]

The window concept IMO is a by-product of dealing Jake, likely two top 100 prospects and three top 60 draft picks. Much of our success has been paid forward from our future. I do think there could be some quick replenishment to our system by trading certain players and also letting others leave via FA (with a generous QO). I think there are certain key variables in play noted below:

1) Will our FO go all-in again next year - offering significant contracts to older players like Cruz and Hardy? And perhaps sacrificing more draft picks on other FAs? Does this depend on how well the team does in the playoffs this year?

I don't think we went "All In" this year. All in would have been trading Manny and Chris Davis and Wieters before they got hurt, ineffective, banned.

[Redskins Rick]

I don't think we went "All In" this year. All in would have been trading Manny and Chris Davis and Wieters before they got hurt, ineffective, banned.

I agree.

DD took some moderate and calculated risks.

Trading E-Rod for Miller wasn't all-in.

Trading Patton for Hundley while a great move, again, wasn't all-in.

Getting De Aza and Johnson, again, risks, but not desperation all in moves.

[weams]

I agree.

DD took some moderate and calculated risks.

Trading E-Rod for Miller wasn't all-in.

Trading Patton for Hundley while a great move, again, wasn't all-in.

Getting De Aza and Johnson, again, risks, but not desperation all in moves.

Some folks felt the giving up pick for Norris, Ubaldo, and Cruz was all in. And giving up Hader, Eduardo, and Delmonico was selling the future.

[Three Run Homer]

I don't think we went "All In" this year. All in would have been trading Manny and Chris Davis and Wieters before they got hurt, ineffective, banned.

I'm confused. Wouldn't trading Davis or Wieters at the start of 2014 have been "all-out" rather than "all-in"? Trading quality veterans with soon-to-expire contracts is usually what teams do when they are playing for next year.

[Rene88]

Seems like when they hired Dave Wallace the pitching turned a corner.

As far as the offense and defense goes its wait and see. Adam and Manny are the only guys that are established and going to be around for a while. Everyone else has a contract or performance issue that makes me not look into the future too far.

I think the two year window was based on Wieters and Davis becoming FA and this year makes it pretty clear they are replaceable.

Dave Wallace perhaps should be the MVP. Completely agree.

Our farm system is not very good, still. And when I say good, I mean throughout. It is "lumpy". It is articially higher based on Bundy and Harvey, then a steep drop.

So I am not sure a "window" is correct, but the importance of getting a good return from losing Cruz and Hardy this offseason are critical IMO.

[Reboulet'sStache]

I'm confused. Wouldn't trading Davis or Wieters at the start of 2014 have been "all-out" rather than "all-in"? Trading quality veterans with soon-to-expire contracts is usually what teams do when they are playing for next year.

Not necessarily. Oakland and Tampa do it all the time, and they consistently win.

[Reboulet'sStache]

I agree.

DD took some moderate and calculated risks.

Trading E-Rod for Miller wasn't all-in.

Trading Patton for Hundley while a great move, again, wasn't all-in.

Getting De Aza and Johnson, again, risks, but not desperation all in moves.

I wouldn't say the last few years have been "moderate." The O's have given up 3 early picks and two good to very good prospects. For a team that isn't going to make that up with payroll, that's a pretty decent investment.

[Ripken]

There was never a two year window. I've been watching games without even thinking about Davis. Dan and Buck have this...

[weams]

I'm confused. Wouldn't trading Davis or Wieters at the start of 2014 have been "all-out" rather than "all-in"? Trading quality veterans with soon-to-expire contracts is usually what teams do when they are playing for next year.

You could have gotten a lot for them. Instead we got nothing.

[weams]

I wouldn't say the last few years have been "moderate." The O's have given up 3 early picks and two good to very good prospects. For a team that isn't going to make that up with payroll' date=' that's a pretty decent investment.[/quote']

I'd agree that it is a moderate investment to play well now.

[Redskins Rick]

Some folks felt the giving up pick for Norris, Ubaldo, and Cruz was all in. And giving up Hader, Eduardo, and Delmonico was selling the future.

Yeah, I know, we sold the future by giving up mid-range guys, sorry, like I said.

IMO

calculated risks.

We didn't give up any blue chippers, and that is something to keep in mind.

The future is Gausman, Bundy, Harvey, Bach, Guilmett, TJ & Wright. All above Hader and E-Rod in the food chain.

Also, so far, best season since 1979 for the Orioles, has to shown that for the most part, what DD did is working.

Maybe they can sign some more International signings to help with the loss of those 3 picks.

[Redskins Rick]

I wouldn't say the last few years have been "moderate." The O's have given up 3 early picks and two good to very good prospects. For a team that isn't going to make that up with payroll' date=' that's a pretty decent investment.[/quote']

The Return on Investment is: Best Season since 1979 and AL East Winners, and hopefully more.

I do not believe the team raided their farm system, either, they were deeper than they have been in years, and hopefully, they will continue to make wise picks.

[Reboulet'sStache]

The Return on Investment is: Best Season since 1979 and AL East Winners, and hopefully more.

I do not believe the team raided their farm system, either, they were deeper than they have been in years, and hopefully, they will continue to make wise picks.

If you want to say the Orioles are in great shape right now, and that is largely because the moves they made, that's fine. That's a separate argument. The issue isn't that the Orioles didn't do well this season, it's if the Orioles paid a decent price trying to get to this point. And I would argue that they did. The gave up some valuable future pieces, and missed a chance to add valuable future pieces by not moving certain guys, so they can win now. The farm system is middle of the road right now, so it's not as if it is loaded with talent ready to step in and keep the bus moving. You basically said it yourself. The "future" is "...Bach, Guilmett, TJ..." If those 3 are your future, you're going to need to be really creative and have all your moves hit going forward to be competitive.

[Can_of_corn]

I would like to see more talent coming up through the pipeline.