Jump to content

The Orioles are the Oakland Athletics of the East

Uli2001

By Uli2001
in Orioles Talk

Recommended Posts

MurphDogg Hangout Grand Counsel

MurphDogg

Posted
Posted
The Giants had one of the best pitchers in the game and all star caliber guys like Posey, Panda, and Pence. They were talented.

The Kansas City baseball team that shall not be named had one of the luckiest streaks in any sport I have ever seen. They won the crapshoot, and they still freaking lost. Get out of here with that.

The Giants won 88 games, they were no better than the third best team in the National League. The Dodgers and the Nationals were both significantly better than the Giants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 63
  • Created
  • Last Reply
tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

Posted
Posted

I think a more appropriate comparison for our organization to seek to emulate are the St. Louis, Atlanta, San Francisco models- teams which have been, on average, just in the tier above the Orioles, but have never been in the top tiers (Yankees who are in a tier by themselves, second tier of LA Dodgers, Boston, NY Mets (poor success for all those dollars), LA Angels. The Cardinals, Braves, Giants have all maintained their MLB payroll rankings near 10th place over the last 15 years- Cardinals have ranked 10.4, Giants at 10.3, Braves at 10.8. But even those clubs have ranged at times from 2nd in payroll one year to as low as 17th in other years. Oakland, while highly successful, as is Tampa Bay in terms of success related to overall payroll, are not easy models to emulate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

Posted
Posted
The Giants had one of the best pitchers in the game and all star caliber guys like Posey, Panda, and Pence. They were talented.

The Kansas City baseball team that shall not be named had one of the luckiest streaks in any sport I have ever seen. They won the crapshoot, and they still freaking lost. Get out of here with that.

This is a good post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

Posted
Posted
Seeing the Nationals sign Max Scherzer for a $210 mil contract shines light on the fact that the Orioles version of moneyball never even has them in this kind of conversation.

Just like Oakland, their strategy is good enough to field a contender that makes the playoffs more often than not, but in this day and age of baseball, the World Series winningteams are the ones that spend big. Just go through the list of the World Series winners from the past decade. Moneyball gets you in the playoffs, but does not win titles.

The Orioles were big spenders in the mid-1990's, and it should have gotten them a title in 1997 except for the bounce of the ball. After that, Peter Angelos apparently decided first that he did not want to spend enough to compete, and then later that he would spend only under a moneyball strategy.

This is just not true. The Giants won the same number of World Series titles in the last 15 years (3) as the Boston Red Sox (3) but averaged 10.3 place in MLB payroll ranking average compared to the Red Sox payroll ranking average of 3.7. The Cardinals were the next most successful with two World Series titles and averaged almost exactly the same average payroll ranking as the Giants- 10.4

The Yankees were extreme spenders and have two World Series championships to show in the last fifteen years though they have ranked number one every year in spending for the last 15 except last year when they were second. The Dodgers were third in all of baseball in payroll spending average ranking in the last 15 years and have ZERO World Series championships to show in that time frame. The Mets were 4th in all of baseball in average payroll ranking in the last 15 years and have ZERO championships and one World Series appearance (in 2000) to show for all their budget.

And the teams with the most playoff appearances without World Series championship would be the Braves who have had 9 playoff appearances in the past 15 years without a World Series title or appearance. And they too were not "moneyballers". Their payroll average is almost exactly the same as St. Louis and San Francisco at 10.8 The Braves clearly had more playoff appearances without a World Series championship than any other team in baseball and are not "moneyballers."

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

Posted
Posted
So, you're philosophy is just make moves whether they work out in the long run or not. Glad we don't have a GM that believes in this way of doing business. I'll stick with our track record since DD has shown up

My philosophy is to make moves when we have to. I'm not saying we have to be as "aggressive" as Oakland (i.e., trading Cespedes, Donaldson, and Moss), but when we loss players via free agency, without clear replacements moves need to be made.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

Posted
Posted
There are 10 teams in the MLB postseason. Other than extremely rare cases in which a team makes a lucky run like the Kansas City baseball team, it's good team vs. good team the whole way through.

The Stanley Cup playoffs contain 16 teams, you see upsets all the time, and even as recently as 2012, an 8 seed won the Cup.

Which one is a crapshoot, again?

NHL being a crapshoot doesn't preclude MLB from being one also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

Posted
Posted
Who are the two winningest teams in the AL during the regular season over the last three years?

The A's have won 278 games during the regular season over that last three years. The O's have won 274 games. They are the two winningest team over the last three years in the AL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Reboulet'sStache Veteran All-Star

Reboulet'sStache

Posted
Posted
Yet they dominated and won a WS recently. If the Orioles go on to win the WS on their current moneyball strategy (which I hope they do) then call me a believer. The A's were not able to do it and they put together pretty good teams.

The short series in the playoffs mean that whoever has the best starting pitching and power hitters usually prevails. And these are expensive pieces.

Based on their current payroll level, what is the alternative, viable strategy?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing


  • Posts

    • EddeeEddee
      An evening spent with Scott Boras

      By EddeeEddee · Posted

      Yeah, I agree something like this might happen some day, but only if the union comes around to believing MLB is on shaky financial footing -- if and when that ever happens. I don't like the idea of voiding a players' contract then and there, but perhaps performing below a certain level would trigger some contract years in the future to automatically become option years.  Something along those lines. It's hard to imagine deals like this today, except possibly here and there for players who are known to be very inconsistent.  As long as baseball is considered financially healthy I'm sure the union would push back strongly against deals like this, especially in large numbers.
    • Uli2001
      Gunnar Henderson 2024

      By Uli2001 · Posted

      Thank you. I knew there was something bogus about that post. I saw Cal play SS. And Gunnar is no Cal at SS. Not even close. And this is coming from a big fan of Gunnar. I would like to see him play a traditional power position. Call me old fashioned. He’s hurting the team at SS. 
    • EddeeEddee
      This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy

      By EddeeEddee · Posted

      Interesting.  We live in a data obsessed world now but it's not the answer to everything.  There should be a mix.  
    • HowAboutThat
      Tracking Ex Oriole Thread

      By HowAboutThat · Posted

      Tobias Myers for the brewers tonight: 6 innings 4H -1ER 1BB 11 Ks. not bad at all!
    • EddeeEddee
      This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy

      By EddeeEddee · Posted

      I doubt solid MLB pitchers can be acquired just by trading position players the vast majority of the time.  Look at how we acquired Bradish and Povich -- by trading solid (at the time anyway) MLB level pitchers.  In those trades we were on the other end, but we forced teams to trade good young pitchers for Bundy and Lopez respectively.  Now we did acquire McDermott and Seth Johnson by trading Trey Mancini.  So it does happen that pitching can sometimes be acquired trading only a position player, but Mancini had had a strong major league career to that point.  My point is I don't think you can expect to acquire pitching only by trading position players -- but if you can it may need to be a strong veteran that is not easy to part with. Perhaps we could acquire Tarik Skubal for just Jackson Holliday -- or Holliday plus one or two other strong position prospects.  But that would be a whole other level of a blockbuster trade. Also, I'm not sure how we can say the system is bereft of homegrown minor league pitching talent and then complain that we traded Baumeister and Chace -- two homegrown minor league pitchers that everyone here seems to agree are talented.  We can criticize the trade, but clearly there was and probably still are some desirable arms in the system that we'd rather not trade.  No, none of the ones Elias drafted have made it to the bigs yet, but maybe those two would have been among the first.    
    • Aristotelian
      This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy

      By Aristotelian · Posted

      Seth Johnson on the Phillies' "philosophy": Orioles are data driven, Phillies are more "old school". I don't get much out of this but it's a data point. https://www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com/mlb/philadelphia-phillies/seth-johnson-mlb-debut-phillies-orioles-trade/613582/ “I think the big thing is that Baltimore is very data-based,” he said. “Here’s a nice blend of the numbers and baseball strategy. Kind of old school. And I’ve been really enjoying it so far. For me, it’s kind of simplified everything. Concentrating on basic concepts like moving the fastball around. Not worrying about pitch shapes all the time. Just going out here and trying to pitch.”
    • Aristotelian
      Winter 2024 40-Man Additions

      By Aristotelian · Posted

      If we have room, why wouldn't we add Pham and Van Loon just to have available depth in AAA (whether or not they are at risk of being taken)? 

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...