O's need to take a hard, hard look in the mirror this offseason

[24fps]

The problem is that this strategy (putting a team on the field actually capable of winning baseball games in the here and now) may not work. It will possibly bring nothing but frustration among O's fans for years to come.

I'm not saying that a complete, deliberate rebuild is necessary. It's just a possibility that I'm exploring.

Sure there's risk. There's no risk in trading away established players wholesale for the next crop of George Springers, Jose Altuves, and Bryce Harpers only to have them turn out to be the next crop of Delmon Youngs (1st overall pick), Travis Sniders (14th overall). Chris Parmalee (20th overall)? There's a prescription for frustration for you.

I don't know which O's fans you're talking about. This O's fan really enjoys well played games where his favorite team has a fighting chance to win every day. Post season appearances are highly appreciated, but not mandatory every year.

[hoosiers]

Oh please. If I told you in 2011 that the next 4 years would result in winning seasons, a Division Title but no championships you'd be upset? Everyone wants a title but only one team goes home 100% happy each year.

I would not have signed up for this if the period ended with a farm system in the bottom quartile. Our success did not have to include gutting the farm, holding onto virtually all major league talent until they hit FA, and a reliance that our FO to create experienced multi-WAR major league contributors every year.

This cat could have been skinned many different ways and IMO most of them would have the Orioles in a better competitive position than we are in today WITH the same post-season experiences of the past few seasons.

[Nevermore]

Sure there's risk. There's no risk in trading away established players wholesale for the next crop of George Springers, Jose Altuves, and Bryce Harpers only to have them turn out to be the next crop of Delmon Youngs (1st overall pick), Travis Sniders (14th overall). Chris Parmalee (20th overall)? There's a prescription for frustration for you.

I don't know which O's fans you're talking about. This O's fan really enjoys well played games where his favorite team has a fighting chance to win every day. Post season appearances are highly appreciated, but not mandatory every year.

I seriously doubt that it's going to happen, but a complete rebuild was just one of many options I was exploring.

[MDtransplant757]

I seriously doubt that it's going to happen, but a complete rebuild was just one of many options I was exploring.

Let's hope not. We're just a few guys out from being a really good team that could have a shot at the WS.

[Three Run Homer]

Let's hope not. We're just a few guys out from being a really good team that could have a shot at the WS.

The way I see it, the O's are likely to be worse next year than this year. They are looking at losing Parra, Davis, O'Day, Chen and Wieters (the latter admittedly being no great loss), and even if the O's maintain payroll they won't be able to afford replacements that are as good. The upper levels of the farm system could yield some useful role players (bullpen depth, 5th starter, platoon outfielder) but I see no impact players arriving next year.

Contending next year would require either (a) a large bump up in payroll, (b) getting some amazing bargains in free agency, or © getting marked improvement from returning players. (a) is not happening; (b) or © could happen, but is it a wise organizational strategy to hope for the unexpected?

So I'm leaning towards an overhaul at this point. Don't trade Jones or Britton just to trade them, but if someone is offering 2 blue chippers for Jones or one blue chipper for Britton, I say take it.

[foxfield]

And if it turns out to be a complete rebuild, I don't believe that DD is the guy who will be able to do this. He's too impatient for a complete rebuild job. It has to be someone who can put together a very deliberate plan, without looking at AAAA players and hoping that they'll somehow bloom into All-Stars. DD would be good for a team that needs some "tweaking." But not good for a team that needs a complete, structural rebuild. Not sure who is available for such a job.

So, you are looking for someone who has the patience to let things.......percolate?

[clapdiddy]

The way I see it, the O's are likely to be worse next year than this year. They are looking at losing Parra, Davis, O'Day, Chen and Wieters (the latter admittedly being no great loss), and even if the O's maintain payroll they won't be able to afford replacements that are as good. The upper levels of the farm system could yield some useful role players (bullpen depth, 5th starter, platoon outfielder) but I see no impact players arriving next year.

Contending next year would require either (a) a large bump up in payroll, (b) getting some amazing bargains in free agency, or © getting marked improvement from returning players. (a) is not happening; (b) or © could happen, but is it a wise organizational strategy to hope for the unexpected?

So I'm leaning towards an overhaul at this point. Don't trade Jones or Britton just to trade them, but if someone is offering 2 blue chippers for Jones or one blue chipper for Britton, I say take it.

I agree with this, as I have mentioned trading Jones. I think you and I both know that is NEVER going to happen, though.

There is one thing in your statement here that I'd have to disagree with. Right now, we only have 44M in payroll commitments for next year. Even with salary increases, we'll still likely have 40M to spend. There will be many holes to fill, but I think DD can find some creative ways to make that money work.

We'll still have a nice core of players, and may be able to make a surprise signing or trade that will upgrade this team.

[MDtransplant757]

The way I see it, the O's are likely to be worse next year than this year. They are looking at losing Parra, Davis, O'Day, Chen and Wieters (the latter admittedly being no great loss), and even if the O's maintain payroll they won't be able to afford replacements that are as good. The upper levels of the farm system could yield some useful role players (bullpen depth, 5th starter, platoon outfielder) but I see no impact players arriving next year.

Contending next year would require either (a) a large bump up in payroll, (b) getting some amazing bargains in free agency, or © getting marked improvement from returning players. (a) is not happening; (b) or © could happen, but is it a wise organizational strategy to hope for the unexpected?

So I'm leaning towards an overhaul at this point. Don't trade Jones or Britton just to trade them, but if someone is offering 2 blue chippers for Jones or one blue chipper for Britton, I say take it.

I wouldn't trade Jones or Britton for anything. O'day i'm on the fence on whether we should resign him or not, as with davis. We need to let matt go and keep Chen

[SteveO]

I wouldn't trade Jones or Britton for anything. O'day i'm on the fence on whether we should resign him or not, as with davis. We need to let matt go and keep Chen

AJ I would not trade. If I could package Britton for a good corner OF under team control for 3-4 years I would do that in a heartbeat.

Britton is a Boras client, unlikely to extend for anything other than max market value. He will command more money than the Orioles should or could pay a closer. I would move him but only if the return is worth it this offseason. If it's not then revisit the issue at next years trade deadline.

[MDtransplant757]

AJ I would not trade. If I could package Britton for a good corner OF under team control for 3-4 years I would do that in a heartbeat.

Britton is a Boras client, unlikely to extend for anything other than max market value. He will command more money than the Orioles should or could pay a closer. I would move him but only if the return is worth it this offseason. If it's not then revisit the issue at next years trade deadline.

But then who will be our closer?

[clapdiddy]

But then who will be our closer?

Mike Wright? Brad Brach? Could be a bunch of different people...some not even on the team as of yet.

[MDtransplant757]

Mike Wright? Brad Brach? Could be a bunch of different people...some not even on the team as of yet.

Good point

[Herman]

Does anyone really expect that anything is going to change in the upcoming offseason? If there was ever an offseason to get aggressive it was last offseason and the big acquisition was Travis Snider.

[Herman]

Arrieta would never pan out in Baltimore. The NL is a pitcher-friendly league, and together with the change of environment this allowed him to find himself. It would never have happened in Baltimore. We should feel good that by letting him go, the Orioles actually helped him have a career.

You're right. Arrieta never had a chance in Baltimore due in part to the Orioles doing a terrible job developing pitchers. Getting out of Baltimore and going to the NL was the best thing that could have happened to him. I hope he wins the World Series MVP so it can be rubbed in the Orioles' face.

[Nevermore]

Let's hope not. We're just a few guys out from being a really good team that could have a shot at the WS.

If we're going to go in that direction, then DD has to make real efforts to resign CD, Wei-Yin Chen, and Darren O'Day. And then look at the FA market and see what's out there and sign some players who will actually make a difference. Not go and take chances on AAAA players who will likely have to be DFA'd.