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Why didn't O'Day get a QO


Catch 8

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There's about an 80% chance O'Day takes that deal. Our offseason would be over if we had given him a QO.
Remember that, in many peoples' minds, relief pitchers grow on trees. Just grab one of the more promising minor leaguers and --voila! A much cheaper Darren O'Day. :rolleyestf:
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Remember that, in many peoples' minds, relief pitchers grow on trees. Just grab one of the more promising minor leaguers and --voila! A much cheaper Darren O'Day. :rolleyestf:

O'Day was signed as an amateur free agent by the LAAOA that the Mets then picked up as a Rule V player. Then the Rangers picked him up as a waiver claim before the O's picked him up as a waiver claim.

That doesn't sound like they grow on trees to you?

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O'Day was signed as an amateur free agent by the LAAOA that the Mets then picked up as a Rule V player. Then the Rangers picked him up as a waiver claim before the O's picked him up as a waiver claim.

That doesn't sound like they grow on trees to you?

Relievers are a dime a dozen in this game.

Quality Relievers that dominate are not, and for that, you have to pay.

I guess ideally, you have 2-3 of those in your pen, and you fill in the rest of the stops with the cheaper and younger arms.

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Remember that, in many peoples' minds, relief pitchers grow on trees. Just grab one of the more promising minor leaguers and --voila! A much cheaper Darren O'Day. :rolleyestf:

No, that's not the argument. It's a cost-production analysis relative to the rest of the team that leads one to the conclusion that you can't invest much in the bullpen unless you're the Dodgers or Red Sox or Yankees.

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Relievers are a dime a dozen in this game.

Quality Relievers that dominate are not, and for that, you have to pay.

Top 30 relievers by fWAR (2015 salary as per Fangraphs):

1. Cody Allen (pre arb assume $500k)

2. Aroldis Chapman (1/8)

3. Dellin Betances ($500k)

4. Zach Britton (1/3.2)

5. Carson Smith (non listed, was rookie so $500k)

6. Andrew Miller (4/36)

7. Trevor Rosenthal ($500k for '14... probably about $1M for '15)

8. Ken Giles (pre-arb, assume $500k)

9. Wade Davis (4/12.6)

10. David Robertson (4/46)

11. Sergio Romo (2/15)

12. O'Day

13. Kenley Jansen (1/7.4)

14. Hector Rondon ($500k)

15. Jeurys Familia (assume $500k)

16. Liam Hendriks ($500k)

17. Mark Melancon (1/5.4)

18. Craig Kimbrel (4/42)

19. Justin Wilson ($600k)

20. Keone Kela ($500k)

21. Will Smith ($500k)

22. Tony Watson (1/1.8)

23. Brett Cecil (1/2.5)

24. Roberto Osuna (assume $500k)

25. Kevin Siegrist ($500k)

26. Josh Fields ($500k)

27. Luke Gregorson (3/18.5)

28. Mark Lowe (listed as $200k, that can't be right, assume $500k)

29. Sam Dyson (assume $500k)

30. Drew Storen (1/5.7)

So 16 of the 30 most dominant relievers in baseball in 2015 were paid under $1M, mostly the league minimum of $500k. Five of the top 30 were on a contract of three years or more. It certainly doesn't seem that being a top reliever means that you're going to be playing on a long, expensive contract. In fact, only three of the top 30 (10%) had a total contract value over $20M.

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No' date=' that's not the argument. It's a cost-production analysis relative to the rest of the team that leads one to the conclusion that you can't invest much in the bullpen unless you're the Dodgers or Red Sox or Yankees.[/quote']

Well, yeah, duh. Cost-production analysis, huh? Sounds like y'all have done some serious thinking about that there relief pitchin'. Can we go back to trees analogy?

My head hurts.

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Top 30 relievers by fWAR (2015 salary as per Fangraphs):

1. Cody Allen (pre arb assume $500k)

2. Aroldis Chapman (1/8)

3. Dellin Betances ($500k)

4. Zach Britton (1/3.2)

5. Carson Smith (non listed, was rookie so $500k)

6. Andrew Miller (4/36)

7. Trevor Rosenthal ($500k for '14... probably about $1M for '15)

8. Ken Giles (pre-arb, assume $500k)

9. Wade Davis (4/12.6)

10. David Robertson (4/46)

11. Sergio Romo (2/15)

12. O'Day

13. Kenley Jansen (1/7.4)

14. Hector Rondon ($500k)

15. Jeurys Familia (assume $500k)

16. Liam Hendriks ($500k)

17. Mark Melancon (1/5.4)

18. Craig Kimbrel (4/42)

19. Justin Wilson ($600k)

20. Keone Kela ($500k)

21. Will Smith ($500k)

22. Tony Watson (1/1.8)

23. Brett Cecil (1/2.5)

24. Roberto Osuna (assume $500k)

25. Kevin Siegrist ($500k)

26. Josh Fields ($500k)

27. Luke Gregorson (3/18.5)

28. Mark Lowe (listed as $200k, that can't be right, assume $500k)

29. Sam Dyson (assume $500k)

30. Drew Storen (1/5.7)

So 16 of the 30 most dominant relievers in baseball in 2015 were paid under $1M, mostly the league minimum of $500k. Five of the top 30 were on a contract of three years or more. It certainly doesn't seem that being a top reliever means that you're going to be playing on a long, expensive contract. In fact, only three of the top 30 (10%) had a total contract value over $20M.

Nice work.

What about the ones like Paps, who was a quality reliever and paid big bucks? If this was 2014, I suspect he would have been on and it would have changed the average a bit.

16 arms of the better arms, are under $1m, that is good to know.

Doesn't change the fact that there are lots of cheap arms around the majors, but not all of them are very good, just cheap.

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Top 30 relievers by fWAR (2015 salary as per Fangraphs):

1. Cody Allen (pre arb assume $500k)

...30. Drew Storen (1/5.7)

So 16 of the 30 most dominant relievers in baseball in 2015 were paid under $1M, mostly the league minimum of $500k. Five of the top 30 were on a contract of three years or more. It certainly doesn't seem that being a top reliever means that you're going to be playing on a long, expensive contract. In fact, only three of the top 30 (10%) had a total contract value over $20M.

Brief follow up here. The average 2015 salary of the top 30 relievers by fWAR was $3.2M. In other words, Zach Britton's contract for '15. The total value of 2015 earning by those 30 pitchers was about $95M, or what the Red Sox are paying Pablo Sandoval over the life of his current contract.

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Brief follow up here. The average 2015 salary of the top 30 relievers by fWAR was $3.2M. In other words, Zach Britton's contract for '15. The total value of 2015 earning by those 30 pitchers was about $95M, or what the Red Sox are paying Pablo Sandoval over the life of his current contract.

Likely the 30 relievers would also lessen the load on the Red Sox catering crew :)

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Top 30 relievers by fWAR (2015 salary as per Fangraphs):

1. Cody Allen (pre arb assume $500k)

2. Aroldis Chapman (1/8)

3. Dellin Betances ($500k)

4. Zach Britton (1/3.2)

5. Carson Smith (non listed, was rookie so $500k)

6. Andrew Miller (4/36)

7. Trevor Rosenthal ($500k for '14... probably about $1M for '15)

8. Ken Giles (pre-arb, assume $500k)

9. Wade Davis (4/12.6)

10. David Robertson (4/46)

11. Sergio Romo (2/15)

12. O'Day

13. Kenley Jansen (1/7.4)

14. Hector Rondon ($500k)

15. Jeurys Familia (assume $500k)

16. Liam Hendriks ($500k)

17. Mark Melancon (1/5.4)

18. Craig Kimbrel (4/42)

19. Justin Wilson ($600k)

20. Keone Kela ($500k)

21. Will Smith ($500k)

22. Tony Watson (1/1.8)

23. Brett Cecil (1/2.5)

24. Roberto Osuna (assume $500k)

25. Kevin Siegrist ($500k)

26. Josh Fields ($500k)

27. Luke Gregorson (3/18.5)

28. Mark Lowe (listed as $200k, that can't be right, assume $500k)

29. Sam Dyson (assume $500k)

30. Drew Storen (1/5.7)

So 16 of the 30 most dominant relievers in baseball in 2015 were paid under $1M, mostly the league minimum of $500k. Five of the top 30 were on a contract of three years or more. It certainly doesn't seem that being a top reliever means that you're going to be playing on a long, expensive contract. In fact, only three of the top 30 (10%) had a total contract value over $20M.

I wonder if that breakdown would change a lot if you looked at fWAR over, say, a three-year period instead of a single year. I think the guys who make a lot of money are generally guys who have proven to be consistently good. And obviously, they have 3+ years of service time.

I started a little project at home figuring out how many relievers make more than $1 mm, $2 mm, etc. I'm only about 1/3 finished, but the early returns suggest that on average only 2-3 relievers per team make $1 mm+.

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Remember that, in many peoples' minds, relief pitchers grow on trees. Just grab one of the more promising minor leaguers and --voila! A much cheaper Darren O'Day. :rolleyestf:

They don't grow on trees but they do grow on farms. Some of them blossom in the springtime. That's where smart teams on a budget look for them.

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No' date=' that's not the argument. It's a cost-production analysis relative to the rest of the team that leads one to the conclusion that you can't invest much in the bullpen unless you're the Dodgers or Red Sox or Yankees.[/quote']

That is prettymuch factual. No matter how much I like the guys in the pen. I loved George Sherrill and Jim Johnson.

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