Fangraphs: The Oriole's Secret Weapon

[Frobby]

I did not misremember totally. In 2012 his k/9 was 7.87. Not bad but not elite for a reliever. It jumps up to 10 the next year...I'll take a look at the splits (pre/post Cubs) from that year when I get in front of a PC

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In any event I am not equating Givens with Strop. Rather, I'm using Strop as an example of what can happen when a funky delivery gets off-kilter. And frankly, Strop has had a pretty good career so far.

[Can_of_corn]

In any event I am not equating Givens with Strop. Rather, I'm using Strop as an example of what can happen when a funky delivery gets off-kilter. And frankly, Strop has had a pretty good career so far.

I don't know Frobby, Givens pitched 87.1 innings last year and his command was spot on for the whole of it. Given his lack of experience pitching I think it is pretty likely that his improved command is something that was part of the development process.

[VeveJones007]

The pen is going to be really good. If they can get bounce back years from Tillman and Gonzalez, then the pitching will be fine.

[MDtransplant757]

The pen is going to be really good. If they can get bounce back years from Tillman and Gonzalez, then the pitching will be fine.

Plus someone like Mike Leake, can you buy World Series tickets in May?

[scOtt]

The general thought that I've always heard is that sidearm motions are better for your shoulder but worse for your elbow. You probably don't want a delivery that's going to be too easy on one at the expense of the other - pitching is going to put a lot of unnatural strain on your body one way or another.

So a sidearm pitcher may be much less likely to have shoulder issues, but be more likely overall than a pitcher with a conventional motion to get hurt. His shoulder isn't carrying much strain and it's instead being diverted somewhere else in the arm that may not be able to handle it as well as the shoulder would.

They can fix elbows. Shoulders not so much.

[scOtt]

The pen is going to be really good. If they can get bounce back years from Tillman and Gonzalez, then the pitching will be fine.

Still need one more. And a serviceable backup.

[Frobby]

Still need one more. And a serviceable backup.

The starting pitching needs to be MUCH better. That won't happen if Chen is not replaced adequately.

[mdbdotcom]

Isn't it time for someone to suggest that Givens be converted to a starter?

[SpinJr]

I did not misremember totally. In 2012 his k/9 was 7.87. Not bad but not elite for a reliever. It jumps up to 10 the next year...I'll take a look at the splits (pre/post Cubs) from that year when I get in front of a PC

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Love the Rodger Clemens 'misremembered'

[LarryBigbie]

Big Givens fan, nice little read. Except of course the part about him being drafted before Arenado and Kipnis to name a few!

[Frobby]

Big Givens fan, nice little read. Except of course the part about him being drafted before Arenado and Kipnis to name a few!

Can't worry about that. There were 18 players drafted ahead of Givens who haven't made it to the majors at all, and another 15 who have played in the majors but have less than Givens' 1.0 rWAR. When you consider that Givens was a high schooler who changed from being a position player to a pitcher four years after he was drafted, his ranking above many first-rounders and others drafted ahead of him is very impressive.

Of course, he is the only player we drafted in 2009 who has reached the majors. But at least we got one. Maybe Ashur Tolliver gets there someday.

[LarryBigbie]

You're right - can drive yourself crazy thinking about that kind of stuff.

Gotta love the fact that this kid found a way to get it done on the bump after having very minimal success as an infielder. Not to mention his willingness to always do what the organization asked of him and "whatever it took to reach the majors."

[DrungoHazewood]

Can't worry about that. There were 18 players drafted ahead of Givens who haven't made it to the majors at all, and another 15 who have played in the majors but have less than Givens' 1.0 rWAR. When you consider that Givens was a high schooler who changed from being a position player to a pitcher four years after he was drafted, his ranking above many first-rounders and others drafted ahead of him is very impressive.

Of course, he is the only player we drafted in 2009 who has reached the majors. But at least we got one. Maybe Ashur Tolliver gets there someday.

Unless you had the #1 pick and you took Ken Griffey Jr you can always play silly what-if games and decide your team was stupid. But why would a sane person want to do that?

[Il BuonO]

Isn't it time for someone to suggest that Givens be converted to a starter?

You gotta problem with that? :slytf:

[mdbdotcom]

You gotta problem with that? :slytf:

I'm all for it.