Time to go all in (Controlled demolition in 2018)?

[joeyc]

Actually, I'm more optimistic now that they will sign Manny and Adam, then I've ever been. The fact that they paid Davis real free agency money has me wondering if he won't spend some money on his own players.

[bobmc]

The idea that there is a window from now until 2018 is sad in of itself. Here's our current rotation.

1. Chris Tillman - 4.99 ERA last year. Numbers down across the board. A 4.55 ERA in the 2nd half, with a 5.73 ERA in August and a 6.51 ERA in Sept/Oct. shows that he never really turned it around. Still want to blame all that on a long honeymoon and not being in great shape in the spring?

2. Ubaldo Jimenez - Completely useless in 2014. Great start in 2014 BUT a 5.63 ERA in his last 15 starts or essentially the 2014 Ubaldo.

3. Miguel Gonzalez - Has pitched 171, 154, and 144 innings, respectively over the last 3 years. See a trend? Had some arm problems last year and never gets through a full season. The late bloomer turns 32 in May. Everyone expects a bounce back. Why?

4. Kevin Gausman - Showed very little progress last year although his strikeout to walk numbers were better. Still has not demonstrated a ML breaking ball that is a solid part of his repertoire. A candidate for a breakout but there have been very few signs of it. Pitched 134 innings last year and 158 in 2014. He also had some shoulder problems early last year and have never gone through a full ML season.

5. Vance Worley - Has never started more than 23 games in a season at the ML level in a single season. A very up and down guy who had a 7.21 ERA in 10 starts in his only time in the American League for the Twins. Was good in 2014 for the Pirates who decided to release him after the 2015 season.

Depth - Tyler Wilson and Mike Wright - Most neutral observes see neither as a future ML starting pitcher. Sure, for 1-3 starts, no problem. For 20 starts or so, you are asking for big trouble.

Future - Dylan Bundy - Since 2012, Dylan Bundy has thrown a total of 167 innings. Enough said. Huge question mark in health and he's even a question mark in performance. He's never dominated at AA, let alone AAA. Even at full health we don't know what we've got with him.

Hunter Harvey - Has throw 113 innings since 2013 with ZERO innings throw in 2015. He's been shut down 2-3 times with a flexor mass strain or tight forearm. That's a common symptom to eventually needing TJ surgery. The Orioles, as always, have taken the cautious approach with rest and rehab. For the second spring in a row, Harvey says he feels great. Of course, he hasn't really been tested yet. All the odds point to a future TJ surgery and another 1 1/2 years missed.

There are really no other legit blue chip starting prospects. Guys like Miranda, Lee, Hess, are all very fringy types as far as future ML starters go. The ML team has a shaky rotation with little depth. The minor league cupboard is tinkering on being completely bare.

If 2016-2018 is our window, I'll take the door.

Man you needs to chill out, have a cuppa Joe and rethink your future :scratchchinhmm:. Get on the Frobby train, succumb to wildcard's desires and pump you up! Demolition is the good news!

I do feel your pain but I love the bright side of the road...:hearts:

[MachoMachadoMan]

Glad I checked out this thread. I was happy for a minute and needed to be reminded that all is pointless and there is no point in getting excited about the ballclub.

[weams]

If 2016-2018 is our window, I'll take the door.

Take it. Buck and Dan are going to continue to compete with what the Orioles have through 2018. Machado and Britton might get traded if we have a poor year somewhere.

[weams]

Glad I checked out this thread. I was happy for a minute and needed to be reminded that all is pointless and there is no point in getting excited about the ballclub.

I enjoy each one of those victories while the team is is in playoff contention each season.

[ChuckS]

The idea that there is a window from now until 2018 is sad in of itself. Here's our current rotation.

1. Chris Tillman - 4.99 ERA last year. Numbers down across the board. A 4.55 ERA in the 2nd half, with a 5.73 ERA in August and a 6.51 ERA in Sept/Oct. shows that he never really turned it around. Still want to blame all that on a long honeymoon and not being in great shape in the spring?

2. Ubaldo Jimenez - Completely useless in 2014. Great start in 2014 BUT a 5.63 ERA in his last 15 starts or essentially the 2014 Ubaldo.

3. Miguel Gonzalez - Has pitched 171, 154, and 144 innings, respectively over the last 3 years. See a trend? Had some arm problems last year and never gets through a full season. The late bloomer turns 32 in May. Everyone expects a bounce back. Why?

4. Kevin Gausman - Showed very little progress last year although his strikeout to walk numbers were better. Still has not demonstrated a ML breaking ball that is a solid part of his repertoire. A candidate for a breakout but there have been very few signs of it. Pitched 134 innings last year and 158 in 2014. He also had some shoulder problems early last year and have never gone through a full ML season.

5. Vance Worley - Has never started more than 23 games in a season at the ML level in a single season. A very up and down guy who had a 7.21 ERA in 10 starts in his only time in the American League for the Twins. Was good in 2014 for the Pirates who decided to release him after the 2015 season.

Depth - Tyler Wilson and Mike Wright - Most neutral observes see neither as a future ML starting pitcher. Sure, for 1-3 starts, no problem. For 20 starts or so, you are asking for big trouble.

Future - Dylan Bundy - Since 2012, Dylan Bundy has thrown a total of 167 innings. Enough said. Huge question mark in health and he's even a question mark in performance. He's never dominated at AA, let alone AAA. Even at full health we don't know what we've got with him.

Hunter Harvey - Has throw 113 innings since 2013 with ZERO innings throw in 2015. He's been shut down 2-3 times with a flexor mass strain or tight forearm. That's a common symptom to eventually needing TJ surgery. The Orioles, as always, have taken the cautious approach with rest and rehab. For the second spring in a row, Harvey says he feels great. Of course, he hasn't really been tested yet. All the odds point to a future TJ surgery and another 1 1/2 years missed.

There are really no other legit blue chip starting prospects. Guys like Miranda, Lee, Hess, are all very fringy types as far as future ML starters go. The ML team has a shaky rotation with little depth. The minor league cupboard is tinkering on being completely bare.

If 2016-2018 is our window, I'll take the door.

I agree with most of these points here. But I think Tillman and Miguel are fully capable of bounce backs. Odds are they will improve from career worst seasons.

The Harvey situation might be the most depressing. We are looking at three missed seasons in a row if he has to get TJ surgery. And I agree, all signs point that way.

We are going to need some good fortune with whatever fifth starter we acquire.

[FanSince88]

The idea that there is a window from now until 2018 is sad in of itself. Here's our current rotation.

1. Chris Tillman - 4.99 ERA last year. Numbers down across the board. A 4.55 ERA in the 2nd half, with a 5.73 ERA in August and a 6.51 ERA in Sept/Oct. shows that he never really turned it around. Still want to blame all that on a long honeymoon and not being in great shape in the spring?

2. Ubaldo Jimenez - Completely useless in 2014. Great start in 2014 BUT a 5.63 ERA in his last 15 starts or essentially the 2014 Ubaldo.

3. Miguel Gonzalez - Has pitched 171, 154, and 144 innings, respectively over the last 3 years. See a trend? Had some arm problems last year and never gets through a full season. The late bloomer turns 32 in May. Everyone expects a bounce back. Why?

4. Kevin Gausman - Showed very little progress last year although his strikeout to walk numbers were better. Still has not demonstrated a ML breaking ball that is a solid part of his repertoire. A candidate for a breakout but there have been very few signs of it. Pitched 134 innings last year and 158 in 2014. He also had some shoulder problems early last year and have never gone through a full ML season.

5. Vance Worley - Has never started more than 23 games in a season at the ML level in a single season. A very up and down guy who had a 7.21 ERA in 10 starts in his only time in the American League for the Twins. Was good in 2014 for the Pirates who decided to release him after the 2015 season.

Depth - Tyler Wilson and Mike Wright - Most neutral observes see neither as a future ML starting pitcher. Sure, for 1-3 starts, no problem. For 20 starts or so, you are asking for big trouble.

Future - Dylan Bundy - Since 2012, Dylan Bundy has thrown a total of 167 innings. Enough said. Huge question mark in health and he's even a question mark in performance. He's never dominated at AA, let alone AAA. Even at full health we don't know what we've got with him.

Hunter Harvey - Has throw 113 innings since 2013 with ZERO innings throw in 2015. He's been shut down 2-3 times with a flexor mass strain or tight forearm. That's a common symptom to eventually needing TJ surgery. The Orioles, as always, have taken the cautious approach with rest and rehab. For the second spring in a row, Harvey says he feels great. Of course, he hasn't really been tested yet. All the odds point to a future TJ surgery and another 1 1/2 years missed.

There are really no other legit blue chip starting prospects. Guys like Miranda, Lee, Hess, are all very fringy types as far as future ML starters go. The ML team has a shaky rotation with little depth. The minor league cupboard is tinkering on being completely bare.

If 2016-2018 is our window, I'll take the door.

Regarding Bundy and Harvey, my OP is getting to the point that they should be on the trading block. Even if one or both of them ends up as a decent ML starter, it's certainly not going to happen this year or (in Harvey's case and probably Bundy's too) next year. By the time they're ready to do something meaningful our window has closed. They do have value now for rebuilding franchises like the Rox or someone else in that position who wouldn't mind taking a flyer on them. If I'm one of those I would love to go to another franchise and start with a clean slate where not as much is expected of me and my fans aren't resentful about my frequent injuries.

It's fair to be scared that one of them turns into Jake arrieta in 3-4 years but that's no way to run a franchise. You're always taking gambles in every trade. Sometimes they work well, other times they don't. Some people on this board might have complained about how Milt Pappas might turn into Cy Young when we traded him for Frank Robinson.

Clearly the FO is in "win now mode" with the CD signing, and if that's the way we're going to ride this rodeo then let's truly go all in and try to acquire the best talent left in the market.

[DrungoHazewood]

By the time they're ready to do something meaningful our window has closed.

Nothing wrong with getting a sawzall and cutting a new window.

[Beef Supreme]

Nothing wrong with getting a sawzall and cutting a new window.

Nice metaphor, Drungo.

Since the Orioles have committed to Davis, lock up Schoop and Manny through most of those years now. The rest will work itself out.

[weams]

Every team in ML baseball competes. I'll be rooting for the team as usual. My expectations are low.

Got it. And you might be right. I'll hope you are not.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Glad I checked out this thread. I was happy for a minute and needed to be reminded that all is pointless and there is no point in getting excited about the ballclub.

I like to carry a small hammer around so that I can hit myself in the crotch should i find myself getting excited or enjoying anything.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[backwardsk]

I thought our window was closed at the end of 2015 when we lost Davis, Chen, Wieters, Cruz, Markakis, and O'Day. I recall reading that on here.

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[Tx Oriole]

Man you needs to chill out, have a cuppa Joe and rethink your future :scratchchinhmm:. Get on the Frobby train, succumb to wildcard's desires and pump you up! Demolition is the good news!

I do feel your pain but I love the bright side of the road...:hearts:

Yes he needs a cup of Joe. Maybe a donut to go with it. I like Oreo cookies with

my Joe.

[El Gordo]

"We're happy when we're sad."