Miguel Gonzalez option available

[srock]

Sure things

1. Jimenez

2. Tillman

3. Guasman

4. Miguel Gonzalez

I don't think there is much argument about the top 3. Ubaldo is under contract, Tillman is cheap for his talent, Guasman is also cheap and ready to be great (or fail trying).

Miguel Gonzalez. Plenty of debate on this but I don't see why. Posted this in another thread which got me thinking about the rotation in general.

Linky

Sure Miguel had a bad year but this was after 3 seasons with an average ERA+ of 120 (even with last season in the average its 111, still above average).

And he is cheap.

If Miguel Gonzalez were a free agent from the Rangers, we would be discussing whether or not to sign him for 2/25 or 3/33 as a bounce back candidate.

The long list of in house candidates for the 5th spot and the requisite depth needed:

Tyler Wilson

Tim Berry

Dylan Bundy

Steve Johnson

TJ McFarland

And hopefully some signings because this isn't a strong or deep list.

Herein lies my point. The Orioles have 4 proven starting pitchers then a bunch of question marks. Why in the world would they dump Gonzalez thus adding to the problem?

[FanSince88]

At least one of these four will struggle mightily and/or get hurt in 2016. Just not sure who it will be. Could be Gonzo, but just as easily could be Gaus or Ubaldo or even Tillman again.

[mdbdotcom]

Sure things

1. Jimenez

2. Tillman

3. Guasman

4. Miguel Gonzalez

I don't think there is much argument about the top 3. Ubaldo is under contract, Tillman is cheap for his talent, Guasman is also cheap and ready to be great (or fail trying).

Miguel Gonzalez. Plenty of debate on this but I don't see why. Posted this in another thread which got me thinking about the rotation in general.

Linky

The long list of in house candidates for the 5th spot and the requisite depth needed:

Tyler Wilson

Tim Berry

Dylan Bundy

Steve Johnson

TJ McFarland

And hopefully some signings because this isn't a strong or deep list.

Herein lies my point. The Orioles have 4 proven starting pitchers then a bunch of question marks. Why in the world would they dump Gonzalez thus adding to the problem?

Three reasons:

1) Tyler Wilson is ready to pitch in the big leagues and deserves a shot

2) Gonzo will be 32 years old, so we don't know how much of his problems last year were related to injury and how much to decline

3) Since Gonzalez is still relatively inexpensive this year and still has a couple years of team control, he might bring back a decent prospect. Thinking long term, the prospect could be more valuable than an aging Miguel Gonzalez.

If I thought Tyler Wilson wasn't ready, I might think differently, but it looks to me like he is.

[FanSince88]

I would put it this way. All four have proven that they can pitch well at one point or another, but they've also proven that they can pitch poorly. Has Gausman hit a wall or will he take the next step? Can Ubaldo put together another reasonably consistent year (all things considered 2015 was a fairly solid year for him actually) or will he go off the rails again like he has done so many times in the past? Are Tillman's and Gonzo's best days behind them, or can they bounce back after an inconsistent 2015?

[mdbdotcom]

Three reasons:

1) Tyler Wilson is ready to pitch in the big leagues and deserves a shot

2) Gonzo will be 32 years old, so we don't know how much of his problems last year were related to injury and how much to decline

3) Since Gonzalez is still relatively inexpensive this year and still has a couple years of team control, he might bring back a decent prospect. Thinking long term, the prospect could be more valuable than an aging Miguel Gonzalez.

If I thought Tyler Wilson wasn't ready, I might think differently, but it looks to me like he is.

Also, Tyler Wilson will make 90% less than Miguel Gonzalez next season. We could use that money elsewhere. Try to think of Tyler Wilson as the new Miguel Gonzalez.

[DrungoHazewood]

I doubt the Orioles non-tender him. His contract will be reasonable and if he's healthy he can provide decent back-end performance. He's at least a good insurance policy and could be fine if you have to relegate him to the pen. My feeling is that the folks clamoring for his release are the ones who think beating your FIP for multiple years means you're now going to be way over for a few years to make up for it.

[mdbdotcom]

I doubt the Orioles non-tender him. His contract will be reasonable and if he's healthy he can provide decent back-end performance. He's at least a good insurance policy and could be fine if you have to relegate him to the pen. My feeling is that the folks clamoring for his release are the ones who think beating your FIP for multiple years means you're now going to be way over for a few years to make up for it.

I don't understand why anyone would want to non-tender him. I say trade him.

[FanSince88]

Wilson is the only one of those in house candidates with a realistic shot of winning the #5 job.

Bundy has light experience and could easily hurt his fragile little arm again.

Steve Johnson has been plagued by injuries and he has never had great stuff (he is crafty but will that be enough).

TJ McFarland is just barely good enough as a long reliever and he's lucky he's a lefty or he probably wouldn't be in the majors.

Ok I don't know much about Berry but I haven't seen him mentioned as the next savior anywhere.

[Aristotelian]

I would not describe any of Ubaldo, Tillman, Gausman, or Gonzo as "sure things" except in the sense that they would start the season in the rotation if opening day was tomorrow. None of them are sure things to be any good or last the year in the rotation. I would expect that 3 of the 4 will at least be decent, but I could not say which ones. Gonzo and Tillman could have some trade value and will be making enough money that it could make sense to move one.

I like Tyler Wilson for the 5th spot. Just seems like he knows how to pitch. Consistent winner. Does not make too many mistakes.

If we bring in a free agent SP, you could make a good case for Tyler over Gonzo for that 5th spot.

I think Gunkel, Miranda, and Doyle ought to be on the list of possible SPs, albeit maybe not to start the year.

[DrungoHazewood]

3) Since Gonzalez is still relatively inexpensive this year and still has a couple years of team control, he might bring back a decent prospect. Thinking long term, the prospect could be more valuable than an aging Miguel Gonzalez.

I'm always wary of the proposals to trade a guy we know isn't good enough for the Orioles but other teams like him a lot more so they'll give up an asset for a guy we don't want. I suppose that sometimes happens. But usually you'll get back a prospect who has a 50% chance of becoming Miguel Gonzalez in a few years.

[DrungoHazewood]

I like Tyler Wilson for the 5th spot. Just seems like he knows how to pitch. Consistent winner. Does not make too many mistakes.

I also heard he's clutch, he digs deep when he needs it, he always gives 110%, and he likes puppies.

[srock]

I'm always wary of the proposals to trade a guy we know isn't good enough for the Orioles but other teams like him a lot more so they'll give up an asset for a guy we don't want. I suppose that sometimes happens. But usually you'll get back a prospect who has a 50% chance of becoming Miguel Gonzalez in a few years.

Exactly. Trade from strength or because somebody has to go for other reasons (A's dumping Donaldson). Don't trade a guy for nothing because he had a bad year. There won't be much to get for him.

I would not describe any of Ubaldo, Tillman, Gausman, or Gonzo as "sure things" except in the sense that they would start the season in the rotation if opening day was tomorrow. None of them are sure things to be any good or last the year in the rotation. I would expect that 3 of the 4 will at least be decent, but I could not say which ones. Gonzo and Tillman could have some trade value and will be making enough money that it could make sense to move one.

I like Tyler Wilson for the 5th spot. Just seems like he knows how to pitch. Consistent winner. Does not make too many mistakes.

If we bring in a free agent SP, you could make a good case for Tyler over Gonzo for that 5th spot.

I think Gunkel, Miranda, and Doyle ought to be on the list of possible SPs, albeit maybe not to start the year.

Barring a big trade or freak off-season injury, they are sure things. Contracts demand it. I am arguing that Miguel Gonzales is also a sure thing because of team need and overall performance (4 years, not just last year).

If a trade of a free agent signing occurs, things could change. But still, moving Gonzo really kills the pitching depth, something Duquette and Buck seem to prioritize.

I'll be shocked if Miguel Gonzales is not an Orioles on opening day.

[Ruzious]

I'm not sure why there seems to be a bunch of people here who believe in Tyler Wilson. He's 26, and he's never been more than solid in the minors. He has below average stuff. Ehh.... He's organizational depth.

[oriole]

Between Tillman, Jimenez, and Gonzalez I think one has to go this offseason. Both Tillman and Gonzalez have pitched over their heads and are one year away from becoming relatively expensive so they still have excess value in the balance between past performance and still cheap-ish. And Jimenez is as inconsistent as it gets. Not saying they're all bad guys to have in the rotation but it's a frustrating rotation to have and I'd like to see if it's possible to shake things up a bit.

[mdbdotcom]

I'm always wary of the proposals to trade a guy we know isn't good enough for the Orioles but other teams like him a lot more so they'll give up an asset for a guy we don't want. I suppose that sometimes happens. But usually you'll get back a prospect who has a 50% chance of becoming Miguel Gonzalez in a few years.

Or, you get Jake Arrieta and Pedro Strop. I'd be happy to get someone with a 50% chance of becoming Miguel Gonzalez plus the $4.5 million we would save this year that could be spent elsewhere. That would be a good deal.