HHP: A very complicated last week of ST.

[wildcard]

The pitching roster appears very complicated going into the last 7 games of ST. I will explain.

First let me say the outfield looked complex at the start of ST but seems pretty clear to me now. Jones, Trumbo, Kim, Rickard and Reimold are the 5 outfielders. How much playing time Kim and Rickard get will play out during the season but the 5 outfielders seem firm to me.

Now the pitching.

The termination clause could play a big role here. Players with less than 5 years on service time on a one year contract can be terminated if they show a "failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability" . So how Gonzalez and Worley pitch in these last 7 games is very important to these two players and to the O's.

If either or both players pitch well this week they probably can not be terminated. But if they pitch poorly the O's can make a decision to keep them or terminate them for 25% of their 2016 salary. For Worley that's 650k instead of 2.6m. For Gonzalez 1.3m vs his 5.1m salary.

In Gonzalez's case he has an option. If the O's option him he gets paid his whole 5.1m salary. So what they have to determine this week is has Gonzalez's ability to be a successful pitcher been permanently damaged or is he just having a bad spring and will be abie to come back later in the season to help the O's. Not an easy decision.

Worley has no options left so if he pitches well he probably has to stay because the O's will be obligated to pay his 2.6m salary. If he pitches poorly he probably is terminated.

Also, in the background of all these decisions is Dan trying to acquire more and better pitching. So wire claims, trades and contract purchases could change things.

Right now it appears the pen is 7 relievers. Britton, O'Day, Givens, Brach, Bundy are in. Matusz probably begins the season on the DL with Phillips the most likely short term replacement. He will cost about .5075m. He is out of options so when Matusz returns Phillips is probably DFA'd. If he is claimed his salary goes with him. If not he has the right to give up his salary and be a free agent or go to Norfolk and continue to get paid his major league salary.

The seventh pen spot is Worley's if he pitches well. If he doesn't then the O's could terminated him and go with Roe. That is if Roe pitches well. Roe is out of options and has probably pitched well enough to get paid his .5075mish salary. But if Worley stays Roe is probably DFA'd and the O's are obligated to pay Roe's salary unless he is claimed or he picks free agency.

Now the O's have the right to DFA both Worley and Roe and go with Drake, Despaigne, McFarland, Wright, Wilson or any one they acquire this week but that seems costly and unlikely if Worley pitches well this week.

That is the pen. But the rotation is complicated too. The first decision is does Gonzalez stay, go or is he optioned. If he is not in the O's rotation, they could go with Worley if he pitches well this week or Wilson or Wright or whoever they acquire this week. And that decision will only clear up the 4th spot in the rotation.

The 5th spot depends on Gausman's health. Is he DL'd so the O's can go with another pitcher for the first 5 games or does he remain on the roster and pitch on April 10th. If he is DL'd the O's can keep a second pitcher from Wilson, Wright, Worley or any of the relievers or acquisitions. There is no way to be sure if Gausman will be healthy enough to pitch on April 10th. So this pitcher could stay longer or if Gausman becomes healthy this pitcher needs to be optioned or DFA'd. But if pitchers with options are optioned they must stay in the minors 10 days. The 10 days could start as early as March 25th. But if they pitch in a Grapefruit game this week their 10 days starts after that appearance. All this timing effects who can be recalled during the season and when.

I have left out several variations on who could go and who could stay just to make the explanation clearer. But all in all there are so many possible pltchers that its crazy to try to write it all down. Remember Oliver Drake was AAA Reliever Pitcher of the year last year and he has not allowed a run all spring. But he looks like he starts the season at AAA unless the O's decide he stays.

So I am glad I could clear all this up for you. But, its complicated.

[tntoriole]

The pitching roster appears very complicated going into the last 7 games of ST. I will explain.

First let me say the outfield looked complex at the start of ST but seems pretty clear to me now. Jones, Trumbo, Kim, Rickard and Reimold are the 5 outfielders. How much playing time Kim and Rickard get will play out during the season but the 5 outfielders seem firm to me.

Now the pitching.

The termination clause could play a big role here. Players with less than 5 years on service time on a one year contract can be terminated if they show a "failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability" . So how Gonzalez and Worley pitch in these last 7 games is very important to these two players and to the O's.

If either or both players pitch well this week they probably can not be terminated. But if they pitch poorly the O's can make a decision to keep them or terminate them for 25% of their 2016 salary. For Worley that's 650k instead of 2.6m. For Gonzalez 1.3m vs his 5.1m salary.

In Gonzalez's case he has an option. If the O's option him he gets paid his whole 5.1m salary. So what they have to determine this week is has Gonzalez's ability to be a successful pitcher been permanently damaged or is he just having a bad spring and will be abie to come back later in the season to help the O's. Not an easy decision.

Worley has no options left so if he pitches well he probably has to stay because the O's will be obligated to pay his 2.6m salary. If he pitches poorly he probably is terminated.

Also, in the background of all these decisions is Dan trying to acquire more and better pitching. So wire claims, trades and contract purchases could change things.

Right now it appears the pen is 7 relievers. Britton, O'Day, Givens, Brach, Bundy are in. Matusz probably begins the season on the DL with Phillips the most likely short term replacement. He will cost about .5075m. He is out of options so when Matusz returns Phillips is probably DFA'd. If he is claimed his salary goes with him. If not he has the right to give up his salary and be a free agent or go to Norfolk and continue to get paid his major league salary.

The seventh pen spot is Worley's if he pitches well. If he doesn't then the O's could terminated him and go with Roe. That is if Roe pitches well. Roe is out of options and has probably pitched well enough to get paid his .5075mish salary. But if Worley stays Roe is probably DFA'd and the O's are obligated to pay Roe's salary unless he is claimed or he picks free agency.

Now the O's have the right to DFA both Worley and Roe and go with Drake, Despaigne, McFarland, Wright, Wilson or any one they acquire this week but that seems costly and unlikely if Worley pitches well this week.

That is the pen. But the rotation is complicated too. The first decision is does Gonzalez stay, go or is he optioned. If he is not in the O's rotation, they could go with Worley if he pitches well this week or Wilson or Wright or whoever they acquire this week. And that decision will only clear up the 4th spot in the rotation.

The 5th spot depends on Gausman's health. Is he DL'd so the O's can go with another pitcher for the first 5 games or does he remain on the roster and pitch on April 10th. If he is DL'd the O's can keep a second pitcher from Wilson, Wright, Worley or any of the relievers or acquisitions. There is no way to be sure if Gausman will be healthy enough to pitch on April 10th. So this pitcher could stay longer or if Gausman becomes healthy this pitcher needs to be option or DFA'd. But if pitchers with options are optioned they must stay in the minors 10 days. The 10 days could start as early as March 25th. But if they pitch in a Grapefruit game this week their 10 days starts after that appearance. All this timing effects who can be recalled during the season and when.

I have left out several variations on who could go and who could stay just to make the explanation clearer. But all in all there are so many possible pltchers that its crazy to try to write it all down. Remember Oliver Drake was AAA Reliever Pitcher of the year last year and he has not allowed a run all spring. But he looks like he starts the season at AAA unless the O's decide he stays.

So I glad I could clear all this up for you. But, its complicated.

excellent summary!! Thanks. I do hope Oliver Drake makes the pen sometime this year. I have rooted for him since the Naval Academy!!

[Aristotelian]

To me, Worley is pretty easy to let go. Hasn't shown much, doesn't really have the track record. Miguel was a core member of the 2012 and 2014 teams. $5M is a significant chunk of change that could go toward the team next year or a midseason pickup this year. That said, DD has always tried to hold onto players as long as possible, as does Buck. See Norris, Bud and De Aza, Alejandro. Those guys were making the same or more money than Gonzo but DD stuck with them.

[Frobby]

Yep, pretty complicated. My gut tells me the O's won't release Gonzalez, who meant so much to this team in 2012 - 2014. But I can see the argument that they should. Worley is easier to release since he has no history here. But Gonzo is more expensive and he's older.

Very tough decisions all around.

[wildcard]

Worley has had 3 good outings this spring of 2 innings each. That sounds more like a reliever. He has had two bad outings. So what he does this week very well could be the determining factor as to whether the O's could terminate him or not. Thus whether they are on the hook for the 2.6m.

Dan went to great lengths last year to DFA Webb and then traded him. His situation was a little different as a 5 year player and his money was guaranteed but I think it shows Dan's williness to get rid of a player if he does not fit in Dan's and Buck's opinion.

Webb was owed 2.7m last spring when he was traded to LAD along with a draft pick. He was in the 2nd year of a two year contract which may have affect the O's ability to terminate his contract. Here is the transaction:

April 9, 2015: Traded by the Baltimore Orioles with Brian Ward (minors) and 2015 competitive balance round B pick to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Chris O'Brien (minors) and Ben Rowen.

[Bahama O's Fan]

There are two trends I have seen with the O's in Dan's years that I think will give us a clue.

1. Trying to keep everyone possible. He believes in deep depth and is one of the best at roster manipulation. Look to see as many players as possible kept in the organization.

2. Shedding dollars when possible; think Ryan Webb. I don't think we see both Miggy and Worley on the roster. One will be gone to save money.

[El Gordo]

No way they terminate Gonzo's contract based on a poor ST. Was it as bad as Norris' last year? Worst case is they option him. They only need 4 SP until G 6. So that means they can carry an extra RP. That might be Drake since he has an option.

[wildcard]

Worley's 2 scoreless innings today makes it harder for the O's to terminate his contract. And the O's limiting him to 2 innings each of the last 2 outing seem to say that he is being prepared to be a reliever.

He should have another outing this week.

[Barnaby Graves]

Gonzalez looks like he is not a major league pitcher anymore.

I mean you can have nostalgia for him and I love the guy but he was probably a bit lucky, was trending in the wrong direction, and looks to have completely lost the plot. His stuff does not exist anymore and if you haven't figured it out now I think you'll have it figured out later because he is going to be really bad.

[weams]

He should have another outing this week.

Which Buck says will decide if he will be used as a starter or reliever. Today.

[weams]

Gonzalez looks like he is not a major league pitcher anymore.

I mean you can have nostalgia for him and I love the guy but he was probably a bit lucky, was trending in the wrong direction, and looks to have completely lost the plot. His stuff does not exist anymore and if you haven't figured it out now I think you'll have it figured out later because he is going to be really bad.

When you are just barely there, it does not take much stuff to lose to put you in independent ball.

[sfosfan]

I think Gallardo just made things evern more complicated. I am going to be angry if both Gallardo and Gonzales open the year in the rotation. :angryfire:

[wildcard]

Which Buck says will decide if he will be used as a starter or reliever. Today.

I haven't seen that. Do you have a link?

[Going Underground]

The pitching roster appears very complicated going into the last 7 games of ST. I will explain.

First let me say the outfield looked complex at the start of ST but seems pretty clear to me now. Jones, Trumbo, Kim, Rickard and Reimold are the 5 outfielders. How much playing time Kim and Rickard get will play out during the season but the 5 outfielders seem firm to me.

Now the pitching.

The termination clause could play a big role here. Players with less than 5 years on service time on a one year contract can be terminated if they show a "failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability" . So how Gonzalez and Worley pitch in these last 7 games is very important to these two players and to the O's.

If either or both players pitch well this week they probably can not be terminated. But if they pitch poorly the O's can make a decision to keep them or terminate them for 25% of their 2016 salary. For Worley that's 650k instead of 2.6m. For Gonzalez 1.3m vs his 5.1m salary.

In Gonzalez's case he has an option. If the O's option him he gets paid his whole 5.1m salary. So what they have to determine this week is has Gonzalez's ability to be a successful pitcher been permanently damaged or is he just having a bad spring and will be abie to come back later in the season to help the O's. Not an easy decision.

Worley has no options left so if he pitches well he probably has to stay because the O's will be obligated to pay his 2.6m salary. If he pitches poorly he probably is terminated.

Also, in the background of all these decisions is Dan trying to acquire more and better pitching. So wire claims, trades and contract purchases could change things.

Right now it appears the pen is 7 relievers. Britton, O'Day, Givens, Brach, Bundy are in. Matusz probably begins the season on the DL with Phillips the most likely short term replacement. He will cost about .5075m. He is out of options so when Matusz returns Phillips is probably DFA'd. If he is claimed his salary goes with him. If not he has the right to give up his salary and be a free agent or go to Norfolk and continue to get paid his major league salary.

The seventh pen spot is Worley's if he pitches well. If he doesn't then the O's could terminated him and go with Roe. That is if Roe pitches well. Roe is out of options and has probably pitched well enough to get paid his .5075mish salary. But if Worley stays Roe is probably DFA'd and the O's are obligated to pay Roe's salary unless he is claimed or he picks free agency.

Now the O's have the right to DFA both Worley and Roe and go with Drake, Despaigne, McFarland, Wright, Wilson or any one they acquire this week but that seems costly and unlikely if Worley pitches well this week.

That is the pen. But the rotation is complicated too. The first decision is does Gonzalez stay, go or is he optioned. If he is not in the O's rotation, they could go with Worley if he pitches well this week or Wilson or Wright or whoever they acquire this week. And that decision will only clear up the 4th spot in the rotation.

The 5th spot depends on Gausman's health. Is he DL'd so the O's can go with another pitcher for the first 5 games or does he remain on the roster and pitch on April 10th. If he is DL'd the O's can keep a second pitcher from Wilson, Wright, Worley or any of the relievers or acquisitions. There is no way to be sure if Gausman will be healthy enough to pitch on April 10th. So this pitcher could stay longer or if Gausman becomes healthy this pitcher needs to be optioned or DFA'd. But if pitchers with options are optioned they must stay in the minors 10 days. The 10 days could start as early as March 25th. But if they pitch in a Grapefruit game this week their 10 days starts after that appearance. All this timing effects who can be recalled during the season and when.

I have left out several variations on who could go and who could stay just to make the explanation clearer. But all in all there are so many possible pltchers that its crazy to try to write it all down. Remember Oliver Drake was AAA Reliever Pitcher of the year last year and he has not allowed a run all spring. But he looks like he starts the season at AAA unless the O's decide he stays.

So I am glad I could clear all this up for you. But, its complicated.

Gonzalez gets one more start.Do you think this one start will change Buck and Duquette's plan?

[wildcard]

Gonzalez gets one more start.Do you think this one start will change Buck and Duquette's plan?

I don't pretend to know what Dan and Buck's plan is for Gonzalez. Do they make a decision this week? Its pretty different to pitch in Florida with the wind blowing out compared to pitching is Baltimore in April when the ball does not carry.

Buck and Dan don't have a lot of alternatives at this point. Especially when Gausman seem to think it could be one to two weeks into the season before he is activated.