Wayne Kirby's Outfield Positioning (A rant thread)

[PaulFolk]

No need to be a wise guy, as you know my beef with playing corner outfielders almost religiously now up the gaps which penalizes the pitcher when the make a good pitch often times and rewards the hitter when they deserve to be out!

Do you have evidence that the Orioles' outfield positioning has allowed more hits than it has prevented?

[Can_of_corn]

No need to be a wise guy, as you know my beef with playing corner outfielders almost religiously now up the gaps which penalizes the pitcher when the make a good pitch often times and rewards the hitter when they deserve to be out!

I think there was a definite need for me to be a wise guy.

The folks coordinating the defense have to work with what they have.

[Aristotelian]

While complaining of the occasional ball that falls in that MAY have been caught without the "Shift" there is a need to look at the runs/hits prevented by the positioning aspect of th "Shift". Those go unnoticed by most.

Agreed, and same goes for Kirby's gap defense. It has certainly produced outs on balls that would otherwise be in the gap. The question is does the positioning produce more outs than it gives up. You would have to start keeping track and back it up with numbers to make a good case. No matter where players are positioned, balls are going to fall in. The question is where are balls hit most of the time.

[DrungoHazewood]

Do you have evidence that the Orioles' outfield positioning has allowed more hits than it has prevented?

I, too, am curious about the analysis he's done that shows the Orioles outfield positioning is allowing more hits/runs than a traditional configuration would.

[DrungoHazewood]

No need to be a wise guy, as you know my beef with playing corner outfielders almost religiously now up the gaps which penalizes the pitcher when the make a good pitch often times and rewards the hitter when they deserve to be out!

So why are they positioning the outfielders where they are? To me it's totally obvious that they do it based on the data that shows where opposing hitters hit the ball. Why would you want them to play in some straight-up position when that's not where they typically hit the ball? Do you want the pitching to look even worse just because it feels better to you to have the outfielders where they'd have played in 1952?

[Old#5fan]

Do you have evidence that the Orioles' outfield positioning has allowed more hits than it has prevented?

No I don't but I can assure you it is totally obvious as the nose on anyone's face that if you play gap defense all the time you are giving the hitters more credit than they likely deserve as unless you have lousy pitching and are facing an offense like Toronto or maybe Texas there will be more straight away outs or bloops down the line than balls hammered up the gaps. I just think playing the gaps is fine in certain situations where it makes sense but not as standard defense.

[Old#5fan]

I think there was a definite need for me to be a wise guy.

The folks coordinating the defense have to work with what they have.

So essentially you agree with Kirby that our pitching is so pitifully weak that we should just always play the corner outfielders in the gaps instead if going by normal positioning? Even if Tillman or Britton (our two best pitchers are pitching and fresh not tired!

[Old#5fan]

So why are they positioning the outfielders where they are? To me it's totally obvious that they do it based on the data that shows where opposing hitters hit the ball. Why would you want them to play in some straight-up position when that's not where they typically hit the ball? Do you want the pitching to look even worse just because it feels better to you to have the outfielders where they'd have played in 1952?

No not at all but I think Kirby has fallen in love with guarding the gaps as a rule of thumb - I cannot believe if you have been watching the games this season you haven't noticed? Or even if you took the time to read the chain of posts on this thread others are agreeing with me and have observed this also.

[Can_of_corn]

So essentially you agree with Kirby that our pitching is so pitifully weak that we should just always play the corner outfielders in the gaps instead if going by normal positioning? Even if Tillman or Britton (our two best pitchers are pitching and fresh not tired!

I think the analytics department, working in conjunction with Buck and his coaches know better how to position the defense than you do.

Kinda high and mighty of you to think you know better to be honest.

[Old#5fan]

Agreed, and same goes for Kirby's gap defense. It has certainly produced outs on balls that would otherwise be in the gap. The question is does the positioning produce more outs than it gives up. You would have to start keeping track and back it up with numbers to make a good case. No matter where players are positioned, balls are going to fall in. The question is where are balls hit most of the time.

Yes and I am not espousing never to use it but he seems to be in love with it

[Old#5fan]

I think the analytics department, working in conjunction with Buck and his coaches know better how to position the defense than you do.

Kinda high and mighty of you to think you know better to be honest.

No, it's just my being a fan and questioning what I am seeing employed. Coaches know more than most fans including yours truly, but they are not infallible either.

[Can_of_corn]

No, it's just my being a fan and questioning what I am seeing employed. Coaches know more than most fans including yours truly, but they are not infallible either.

You tone isn't of someone questioning.

[byrdz]

Pitching

Pitching

Pitching

Pitching

[Old#5fan]

You tone isn't of someone questioning.

Now you are going to criticize my "tone"? And you have the gall to accuse me of being out of line in questioning coaching decisions? When you are nit picking my so called "tone"! unbelievable is all I can say! Look I love Buck as the O's manager and next to Earl he is hands down their best ever. But I have questioned some things he has done or not done as well. For example leaving pitchers in a batter too long or not pulling the infield in closer when Britton was losing games last year by giving up dinky infield hits. Doesn't mean I am claiming I know more than anyone - just frustrating to watch. Apparently you are not an NFL fan as if you were you would be familiar with fans questioning just about every move a coach makes if they lose the game! Nobody thinks they are out of line for doing that but it is the norm!

[scOtt]

So essentially you agree with Kirby that our pitching is so pitifully weak that we should just always play the corner outfielders in the gaps instead if going by normal positioning? Even if Tillman or Britton (our two best pitchers are pitching and fresh not tired!

So you're SURE Kirby thinks our pitching is "pitifully weak"?

Piece. Of. Work.