Gausman is beginning to remind me of Guthrie

[Can_of_corn]

Well, there was Bob Horner.

Does anyone know why he had a relatively short career? I assume it was some type of injury but his career record shows a pretty consistent high level of performance as a slugger.

He signed with the O's.

Well that and injuries.

He also played a year in Japan because of collusion.

[OFFNY]

Well, there was Bob Horner.

Does anyone know why he had a relatively short career? I assume it was some type of injury but his career record shows a pretty consistent high level of performance as a slugger.

I saw Bob Horner hit 4 home runs in a game in a losing cause in July of 1986 on TBS.

After a solid 1986 season, Horner became a free agent. However, he was likely a victim of the owner's collusion at the time, so he went to play in Japan in 1987.

He came back to the Majors in 1988 to play for the Cardinals, but only played in 60 games due to an injured shoulder.

In 1989, he announced his retirement even though the Orioles invited him to Spring Training ...... I'm not sure if it had to do with his shoulder injury from the previous year or not.

[LA2]

I saw Bob Horner hit 4 home runs in a game in a losing cause in July of 1986 on TBS.

After a solid 1986 season, Horner became a free agent. However, he was likely a victim of the owner's collusion at the time, so he went to play in Japan in 1987.

He came back to the Majors in 1988 to play for the Cardinals, but only played in 60 games due to an injured shoulder.

In 1989, he announced his retirement even though the Orioles invited him to Spring Training ...... I'm not sure if it had to do with his shoulder injury from the previous year or not.

Thanks. So that means he would have blocked Craig Worthington's one decent year at third or Randy Milligan's fine year at first. Could have used him at DH though, where we were so desperate that we made one of the O's worst acquisitions ever, a washed-up Keith Moreland.

[Old#5fan]

What MLB team did he play for again?

I'll say that if you need to swtich sports to find evidence, your case might be lacking.

Since baseball is a sport and all sports have moments of extreme pressure as in when the match, game, even season are on the line it makes no sense whatsoever and simply beyond stupid to say there is nothing, no extreme pressures or clutch situations where some players are better at coming through and some melt down and choke. If you are truly an Orioles fan old enough to have watched Armondo Benitez in action you should know this and he is just one example of many. Chris Ray was another meltdown master forgetting to cover first base on the Mothers Day Massacre. You see it all the time with certain players folding under pressure and some like Weiters this season excelling with game winning hits or ribs.

[Can_of_corn]

Since baseball is a sport and all sports have moments of extreme pressure as in when the match, game, even season are on the line it makes no sense whatsoever and simply beyond stupid to say there is nothing, no extreme pressures or clutch situations where some players are better at coming through and some melt down and choke. If you are truly an Orioles fan old enough to have watched Armondo Benitez in action you should know this and he is just one example of many. Chris Ray was another meltdown master forgetting to cover first base on the Mothers Day Massacre. You see it all the time with certain players folding under pressure and some like Weiters this season excelling with game winning hits or ribs.

If there are all of these opportunities than surely there must be data to support your claims.

How about, just for once, you actual do a little bit of work and provide some actual evidence for what you are saying.

Right now you might as well be telling me unicorns are real because you saw one in a peyote fueled dream quest.

[Old#5fan]

If there are all of these opportunities than surely there must be data to support your claims.

How about, just for once, you actual do a little bit of work and provide some actual evidence for what you are saying.

Right now you might as well be telling me unicorns are real because you saw one in a peyote fueled dream quest.

Chris Ray choking and failing to cover first base in the Mothers Day Melt Down really happened I can assure you. I watched it - maybe you need to watch and pay more attention to these things which are the human element of the game, which IMO is what makes it more interesting. Same way with Benitez who was maddening to watch. Give him more that a one run lead and he would usually dominate. However when under the utmost pressure he folded like an accordion. It was as obvious as observing that Manny made a great play.

[Can_of_corn]

Chris Ray choking and failing to cover first base in the Mothers Day Melt Down really happened I can assure you. I watched it - maybe you need to watch and pay more attention to these things which are the human element of the game, which IMO is what makes it more interesting. Same way with Benitez who was maddening to watch. Give him more that a one run lead and he would usually dominate. However when under the utmost pressure he folded like an accordion. It was as obvious as observing that Manny made a great play.

Stating that one person failed in one situation is pretty close to the exact opposite of providing actual proof.

But you know this.

You always know this.

This is all either an act or you are just too lazy to do any actual work to provide any reasonable basis for what you espouse.

(If any of those words are too big shoot me a pm and I'll explain them to you.)

[Old#5fan]

Stating that one person failed in one situation is pretty close to the exact opposite of providing actual proof.

But you know this.

You always know this.

This is all either an act or you are just too lazy to do any actual work to provide any reasonable basis for what you espouse.

(If any of those words are too big shoot me a pm and I'll explain them to you.)

Again I ask you do you actually watch the games? If so do you even understand the human element of baseball or for that matter any sport? You can't answer that question because obviously you never played competitive baseball or am betting any sport. I have but even more importantly can easily observe when people lose their poise and become rattled. That has happened to me personally too. I watched the game where a huge brawl ensued where Benitez lost his composure after giving up a Yankee homer and told my wife and son - you watch he is going to hit the next batter and of course he did. You won't get anything about the human factor in baseball from a stat book. If you watched the recent KC game where Manny got his suspension is a stats book going to tell you how Ventura lost his poise after getting hammered by the Orioles? You could see that one coming a mile away as well.

[Can_of_corn]

Again I ask you do you actually watch the games?

Yes I watch games.

Do you bother to actually try and comprehend what points any other posters are making?

Do you bother to try and actually understand any points you do not agree with?

Have you ever actually clicked on a provided link and attempted to educate yourself?

Are you interested in acquiring knowledge?

[Old#5fan]

Yes I watch games.

Do you bother to actually try and comprehend what points any other posters are making?

Do you bother to try and actually understand any points you do not agree with?

Have you ever actually clicked on a provided link and attempted to educate yourself?

Are you interested in acquiring knowledge?

I have far more knowledge of the game about many more things than you do that I would wager on. Can you throw a curve ball and strike someone out in a game three times who was drafted by the Pirates? Can you pick balls at first base out of the dirt more times than you can count and once make a game ending unassisted double play with the bases loaded? Have you ever lead an organized baseball league in doubles and finish in the top 10 in hitting? Have you ever coached an undefeated Little League team in a regular season and a Little League Allstar team to three or more consecutive wins back when it was single game elimination? Have you been a fan of the Baltimore Orioles like I have since attending my first game as an 8 year old in 1963? If the answer to any of this is no, then don't you DARE lecture me in any way shape or form son. You are full of puffery, arrogance and ego with nothing to back it up. From where I come from you have an alligator mouth and a canary ass!

[DrungoHazewood]

Once again I'm really not speaking of basketball, I only follow baseball and curling. (I've seen no evidence of clutchness in curling)

I follow soccer (as I've been chastised for here many times) and the only evidence I see of clutchiness there might be among the players less eager to be in constant motion for 90 minutes. I might be convinced that some players contribute more in the clutch because they won't or can't run hard as much as you'd like.

In almost 40 years of following baseball I've never seen an exhausted baseball player batting*. So it's a stretch to think players are saving their energy for the key moments of the game.

* I have seen Ty Wigginton score from first on a double and waive off medical attention afterwards.

[tntoriole]

Well, there was Bob Horner.

Does anyone know why he had a relatively short career? I assume it was some type of injury but his career record shows a pretty consistent high level of performance as a slugger.

Horner was one of those rare players who came right to the majors after signing as the number one pick in the draft in 1978 (and was perhaps the greatest college player ever at Arizona State University) and he played in 89 games for the Braves, hitting a homerun in his first game and hit 23 hrs in those 89 games and won NL Rookie of the Year over Ozzie Smith. He was the PHENOM of phenoms!!!! He had a great full season in 1979, hitting .314 and 33 hrs, but then 10 games into 1980 with the Braves 1-9 and he was hitting .059, Ted Turner insisted on sending him down to Richmond AAA. Horner refused to go and they had a standoff for 10 days before Turner folded. But he took a lot of heat for weight, then was hurt, then was a victim of the collusion process. He had perhaps one of the quickest bats I have ever seen, extremely compact and balanced power stroke.

[beervendor]

From where I come from you have an alligator mouth and a canary ass!

Reading this made these last six pages of sniping all worth it. Also, where do you come from that they say this?

[DrungoHazewood]

Reading this made these last six pages of sniping all worth it. Also, where do you come from that they say this?

Nineteen aught six.

[Ruzious]

Horner was one of those rare players who came right to the majors after signing as the number one pick in the draft in 1978 (and was perhaps the greatest college player ever at Arizona State University) and he played in 89 games for the Braves, hitting a homerun in his first game and hit 23 hrs in those 89 games and won NL Rookie of the Year over Ozzie Smith. He was the PHENOM of phenoms!!!! He had a great full season in 1979, hitting .314 and 33 hrs, but then 10 games into 1980 with the Braves 1-9 and he was hitting .059, Ted Turner insisted on sending him down to Richmond AAA. Horner refused to go and they had a standoff for 10 days before Turner folded. But he took a lot of heat for weight, then was hurt, then was a victim of the collusion process. He had perhaps one of the quickest bats I have ever seen, extremely compact and balanced power stroke.

He really was the phenom of phenoms with the bat - though definitely nothing special on defense. Injuries were his biggest problem, but there were others. The expectations for him were ridiculous especially after his great rookie year. He had flaws that could have been corrected with a year or 2 in the minors, but the Braves rushed him and looked justified when he had the great rookie year. People were expecting the next Hank Aaron - when he was too young to handle that. And it definitely hurt to have Ted Turner as the owner. He was constantly interfering at that time and trying to force him to the minors whenever he got in a slump. Turner's interference caused Horner lots of frustrations.