Fix the Starting Pitching

[Bahama O's Fan]

This has been the problem for years and we are no closer to fixing it than we were before Andy. We can't develop prospects and we can't find good ones on the FA market. What is wrong? The last two GM's? The scouting department? The coaches? If you were put in charge of the O's, what would you do?

[o'sfansince1970]

I'd start by putting every person involved with the minors under the microscope. It is so broken I can't believe it. Spend whatever it takes because this team will never be able to outspend the AL east. Whoever is responsible for the state of the minors should go. Enemy of the team. The lame duck GM is next in line. PA is smart enough to know this will undermine. Send him packing after the season. We have 1 of the best in Buck. I do wish someone else made in game pitching moves. The 5th-6th inning thing has killed us! Trade Manny for max return, whenever that is.

[Aristotelian]

Look at the teams that are successfully developing pitchers. St. Louis, Tampa, Cleveland. Hire their #2 to be our #1. Clean house, hold people accountable, and implement a new system.

I don't really care about the MLB pitching coach, it has to start earlier than that. 

I feel like the scouting is OK. We are bringing in guys with great stuff. They just aren't developing.   

It would help if we could recruit competitively in Latin America. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

Thanks for your responses. I guess most people don't want to take a shot at it. Too big of a problem?

[Ohfan67]

55 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Thanks for your responses. I guess most people don't want to take a shot at it. Too big of a problem?

I think it's just that there's discussion, lamentations, and gnashing of teeth about the past, current, and future pitching in many other recent threads. 

[Cumberbundy]

It's puzzling that anyone here ever begins to think Ubaldo may turn something around. He be who he be. One of the more stupefying moves of the last 5 years. 

[Cumberbundy]

3 hours ago, RZNJ said:

There's no easy answer.   Obviously, we've developed very few starting pitchers.   Let's look at the two we have.   Bundy and Gausman were both top 5 picks in the entire draft.   Bundy already had all of the pitches but he did improve his change up in our system.   Gausman is essentially what he was when we drafted him, a hard thrower with a good split.      The problem is two fold.    We don't get enoiugh good young pitchers into our system.    That's a combination of 1) not drafting well enough    2) trading away the likes of Eduardo Rodriguez, Ariel Miranda, Zach Davies, and Steven Brault    3) being bottom feeders on the international scene.

Buck and others continually laud our developmental people as the best in the business.   The proof is in the pudding.   Who have we developed?    On the other hand, Rodriguez seemed to improve the minute he left the organization and Miranda was either under valued by us or not developed properly as well.

So, the organization 1) isn't getting enough pitching talent into the system    2) hasn't done a great job of developing the talent we do have   3) has traded away 3 ML starting pitchers (Rodriguez/Miranda/Davies).

I think #2 is debatable.   There is strength in numbers and the developmental staff aren't getting a lot to work with.

Bridwell for cash. He and Hader would be starting for us. 

[Cumberbundy]

On July 8, 2017 at 6:45 AM, Bahama O's Fan said:

This has been the problem for years and we are no closer to fixing it than we were before Andy. We can't develop prospects and we can't find good ones on the FA market. What is wrong? The last two GM's? The scouting department? The coaches? If you were put in charge of the O's, what would you do?

We are much further from fixing it. Dan has made things much worse. He's either paid more by the Yankees or he's awful at his job, I tend to believe the former. Double agent Dan. 

[eddie83]

The majority of quality pitchers drafted -not all- come from the first 2 rounds. One of things that ticks me off is that Dan is blamed for everything.

He has been here 6 years, you can't blame him for what happened before he got here. He gets blamed for problems that were here when he arrived. Andy MacPhail himself I heard on an interview once say that Dan, unlike him was able to add pitching. Of course he was referring to Chen, Gonzalez, etc. 

I personally do not have an issue giving up draft picks to add starters when you have a core to win with. Dan though lost those picks on Ubaldo and Gallardo. That is on him and he whiffed.  He deserves the criticism for that. Those were major blunders.

The Orioles have winning under Dan and he has not had top 5, top 10 picks. Many of the Orioles top players recently have been top of the first round picks like Manny, Bundy, Gausman, Wieters etc. He drafted Harvey and unfortunately he has been hurt. Bundy had 3 years lost due to injury and last year they had to pitch him in the big leagues. Combine this with an owner that doesn't let him add IFA's. It is pretty hard for a middle market club when they are winning and limited by their owner to build a starting staff. Not impossible but hard. 

I also think the heat over the pitches he has lost is overblown. Miley had about a 2.50 era at the end of May. Bridwell hasn't pitched enough yet to be going nuts over him. The Davies-Parra trade was not a good one but Davies in our division? More of what we already have? Miranda has been solid but once again will it last? As bad as some of our starters have been, this year has been a worst case scenario.  

[MDtransplant757]

If we get Alex Cobb, maybe keep Wade Miley and MAYBE Tyler Chatwood

[weams]

8 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Thanks for your responses. I guess most people don't want to take a shot at it. Too big of a problem?

Yeah, I'd say so. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

I like the idea of Cobb.

[weams]

1 hour ago, Cumberbundy said:

Bridwell for cash. He and Hader would be starting for us. 

Bleier for cash. I like him as much as Parker. He has a 1.5 WHIP

[backwardsk]

Has anybody mentioned Flaherty for Kershaw?

[Cumberbundy]

7 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

Has anybody mentioned Flaherty for Kershaw?

No but McFarland USA is a shut down reliever in the NL ?

 

Hader, Ed Rod, Arrieta, Bridwell, Bundy looks nice heading into 2018 imo. Gausman, Miranda get some more work in AAA, then Harvey, Aik & Hall coming up behind them with Liranzo and others looking like they will be able to help after more development. Cheap staff let's us get some bats.