No excuses now

[oandb21]

Why shouldn't we be trying to fill holes with long-term solutions whenever that chance comes along?

Because we may have that player in our system, and a power hitting 1B is not really hard to find, and why pay a guy more than he's worth?? Now is not the time to go signing big contracts, a much smarter play would be to wait and see for another year (2009 season) and then decide what we need, we may not even need a 1B at that point. He will get around 20 mil a year, and he is not worth that, tops he is worth is 14-15 mil a year.

I just don't think it smart to spend that kind of money on a player, until we know where we are headed.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Because we may have that player in our system, and a power hitting 1B is not really hard to find, and why pay a guy more than he's worth?? Now is not the time to go signing big contracts, a much smarter play would be to wait and see for another year (2009 season) and then decide what we need, we may not even need a 1B at that point. He will get around 20 mil a year, and he is not worth that, tops he is worth is 14-15 mil a year.

I just don't think it smart to spend that kind of money on a player, until we know where we are headed.

I think we know where we are headed, but that's just me.

And if it's so "easy" to find one, how many have we had since 1998?

[Mike B]

None of that has to do with your argument, though: that Rodriguez's contract was the cause.

Park had the bad contract that hamstrung them. They could have had two decent pitchers for what it cost for him, and that would have improved that team by a lot.

They were fifth in the league in offense in 2002 and 2003, but 12th and last in pitching. The year before they signed Rodriguez (2000), they were ninth in offense.

Do you believe Albert Belle's contract was stupid for the Orioles?

I think my argument has everything to do with the contract being bad for Texas. Arod played great for them, but the contract killed them. Tom Hicks admitted as much. We are not going to agree. Park got 12 million per which was a major bust but pitchers are a gamble (which is why stockpiling is a great idea). The ARod deal hurt by tieing up payroll and then they paid through the nose to get rid of it. Also, the trade never got close to making them any better. One other point. The second best offer Boras got ARod, was about half of the 252 he got. Hicks went nuts and nothing good for the team happened. Baseball is not a 1 man game. It is the ultimate team game.

I really did not intend to dismiss ARod's talents, my point was to debate the original post that there was no excuse for not signing Texiera. If someone is going to give him say 8 years/200 million we should send him congrats and move on.

[danielh_512]

I think the Orioles have to make a play for Teixeira.

Over the past few years, what signings the Orioles have made have been position players who either weren't offered contracts elsewhere or weren't offered starting roles anywhere else.

Many of the guys they've signed have been older, and have been on the downturn in their careers.

If nothing else, getting involved sends the message that the O's are a destination, and might get some other players to consider playing around a promising young group of players. It might net us that SS that doesn't seem to be in the organization.

I think the market has grown to the point where a power-hitting 1B is automatically going to be considered to need at least $15m yearly to sign.

I think if the bidding stays around $20 million a year, the Orioles have to be involved. If it starts pushing toward $25 mil, I think you've got to bow out and let that kind of contract be eaten by someone else. But with all the problems in Yankeeland these days, I don't think you're going to see them spend as ridiculously as in years past (Although w/Hank at the helm.....)

He's young, talented both at the plate and in the field. He'd be an incredible signing for the O's, both on the field and symbolically, IMO. So let's go for it.

[Mike B]

I think the Orioles have to make a play for Teixeira.

Over the past few years, what signings the Orioles have made have been position players who either weren't offered contracts elsewhere or weren't offered starting roles anywhere else.

Many of the guys they've signed have been older, and have been on the downturn in their careers.

If nothing else, getting involved sends the message that the O's are a destination, and might get some other players to consider playing around a promising young group of players. It might net us that SS that doesn't seem to be in the organization.

I think the market has grown to the point where a power-hitting 1B is automatically going to be considered to need at least $15m yearly to sign.

I think if the bidding stays around $20 million a year, the Orioles have to be involved. If it starts pushing toward $25 mil, I think you've got to bow out and let that kind of contract be eaten by someone else. But with all the problems in Yankeeland these days, I don't think you're going to see them spend as ridiculously as in years past (Although w/Hank at the helm.....)

He's young, talented both at the plate and in the field. He'd be an incredible signing for the O's, both on the field and symbolically, IMO. So let's go for it.[/quote

Very well said.

[JTrea81]

When did I say anything like that?

Please make sure you understand what I say before you quote me.

All I said was that Jordan was to meet with McPhail and Angelos before the draft to talk about the future POSSIBLY including whether or not the Orioles were going to seriously go after Teixeira this off season.

I then said that if the O's go after Matusz over Smoak, it MAY indicate the Orioles will go after Teixeira hard this offseason.

That's it! I never said the Orioles were going to make Teixeira the highest paid player since A-rod nor did I say what was discussed in the meeting for sure because I don't know, I wasn't there.

Chances are, the Orioles are planning to go after Teixeira this off season, but the bidding process will determine how far they go in this regard.

You mentioned that Jordan met with MacPhail and Angelos to talk about the future and that the outcome of the meeting might impact their draft strategy.

Just the thought of this alone is wrong. The Orioles should draft the best player for the franchise regardless of what they are planning to do with the ML club in the offseason. I would seriously hope that the Orioles did not pass on the top hitting prospects and drafted Matusz instead because they feared they'd be blocked by future acquisitions.

BTW I watched that Jordan video from MASN where he says he's happy with Matusz and IMO it looks forced and Jordan looks uncomfortable while saying it. I would put money on that Jordan wanted a hitter and MacPhail made him take a pitcher...

With all that being said I like Matusz and I hope he'll be what we all think he can be. But if we don't land Tex, we are going to need one heck of a Plan B and it had better not be Kevin Millar. We could have already had Plan B had we drafted Smoak. There were plenty of options besides Matusz to fill the rotation if we didn't draft him. He was more like Plan L...

[geschinger]

Why shouldn't we be trying to fill holes with long-term solutions whenever that chance comes along?

Sure, we absolutely should try to fill holes although at the same time we should try to avoid making big mistakes as well. If the bidding for a player like Teix shoots past the level his productivity warrants (in $, but especially in years) signing Teix becomes a long-term problem rather than the solution.

I'm hoping the Orioles determine what they think Teix is worth and see if there is any possibility of getting it done. However, if the bidding skyrockets past what his production warrants I hope that they are willing and able to walk away.

[JTrea81]

I'm hoping the Orioles determine what they think Teix is worth and see if there is any possibility of getting it done. However, if the bidding skyrockets past what his production warrants I hope that they are willing and able to walk away.

I'm curious. If we walk away from Tex, what is your solution to first base and/or a 35+ HR bat to add to our lineup?

[geschinger]

I'm curious. If we walk away from Tex, what is your solution to first base and/or a 35+ HR bat to add to our lineup?

There are plenty of decent 1b and power prospects who may be blocked at the MLB level. If we lose out on Tex and make it a priority to acquire one I have no doubt that AM would be capable of doing so using some of the assets he has available. I think it's foolish to approach Tex as if he is the only palatable option. He's not.

[JTrea81]

There are plenty of decent 1b and power prospects who may be blocked at the MLB level. If we lose out on Tex and make it a priority to acquire one I have no doubt that AM would be capable of doing so using some of the assets he has available. I think it's foolish to approach Tex as if he is the only palatable option. He's not.

Ok well name somebody you think we can trade for and who we would trade for them. Teams are only giving away 1 stud position prospect and it's usually for an ace pitcher. So that leaves Guthrie and Cabrera as the trade candidates. Roberts might be able to fetch somebody as well so I'll throw him in there.

And to limit it even further here are the teams that will likely be sellers, therefore not trade partners:

Seattle

KC

Pittsburgh

San Diego

Colorado

Washington

San Francisco

I don't think you'll see any of those teams trading young talent at the deadline or in the offseason.

[DrungoHazewood]

Ok well name somebody you think we can trade for and who we would trade for them. Teams are only giving away 1 stud position prospect and it's usually for an ace pitcher. So that leaves Guthrie and Cabrera as the trade candidates. Roberts might be able to fetch somebody as well so I'll throw him in there.

And to limit it even further here are the teams that will likely be sellers, therefore not trade partners:

Seattle

KC

Pittsburgh

San Diego

Colorado

Washington

San Francisco

I don't think you'll see any of those teams trading young talent at the deadline or in the offseason.

Whoever said the Orioles had to have a young stud of a first base prospect? Why can't they just get a good player? Or a platoon? Or develop their own? Or find the next Carlos Pena? Or move someone from another position?

Sometimes you really are a reactionary with tunnel vision. It's patently ridiculous to assume that the Orioles can't compete without signing Mark Texeira to an ~8/240 contract.

[Dipper9]

Whoever said the Orioles had to have a young stud of a first base prospect? Why can't they just get a good player? Or a platoon? Or develop their own? Or find the next Carlos Pena? Or move someone from another position?

Sometimes you really are a reactionary with tunnel vision. It's patently ridiculous to assume that the Orioles can't compete without signing Mark Texeira to an ~8/240 contract.

On one hand, I see your point and agree with what you're saying.

On the other hand, if its SO easy to find a first baseman, why in the blue heck have we not had a good one except for Raffy in all these years? I say its not quite as easy as you make it sound.

[DrungoHazewood]

On one hand, I see your point and agree with what you're saying.

On the other hand, if its SO easy to find a first baseman, why in the blue heck have we not had a good one except for Raffy in all these years? I say its not quite as easy as you make it sound.

The Orioles were a poor franchise with inept management and misplaced priorities.

If it was hard to find a decent first baseman why has the average OPS at first been .837 for the last decade? An average team has someone with the offensive ability of 2007 Nick Markakis at first every year.

[Dipper9]

The Orioles were a poor franchise with inept management and misplaced priorities.

If it was hard to find a decent first baseman why has the average OPS at first been .837 for the last decade? An average team has someone with the offensive ability of 2007 Nick Markakis at first every year.

Then why can't we find one? Oh, the inept management, oops. So in your opinion, with MacPhail in charge, whether we get Tex or not, we WILL have a long term solution by next year at first?

[Burg]

Then why can't we find one? Oh, the inept management, oops. So in your opinion, with MacPhail in charge, whether we get Tex or not, we WILL have a long term solution by next year at first?

I'm confident that we'll have a solution next year if we don't get Tex.

I'm not confident that it will be a long term solution and I'm really not sure why it has to be.

Point is that comparing the past regimes to this one is not valid.

AM and company are, from most indications, much more likely to improve the team than the past several regimes.