The O's can have their cake and eat it too

[interloper]

Let's say they trade Britton, Brach, Smith, and Castillo. Duquette doesn't find any takers for Kim or O'Day.

1. The back end of your bullpen becomes Castro, Givens, O'Day. Not too shabby, really. O'Day and Givens can trade off as closer. You have Bleier and Hart doing well, Asher has done well in the bullpen this year so he's an option. Perhaps you give Scott a look.

2. Joseph is still a better defensive catcher than Castillo and he's been hitting, so I don't see a big loss there. Bring up Chance and get his feet wet in a backup role.

3. Smith can be replaced full time with Kim, and you have Santander as a long shot to return from injury. I don't think you lose all that much replacing Smith with Kim.

4. You punt Ubaldo and replace him with the young starter you receive for Britton. And if you feel like punting Miley, you could give his spot to Aquino.

This is all without even factoring in the position players or bullpen pieces you might acquire in any of these trades. I think the O's can sell AND improve at the same time. Not a guarantee, but possible.

[Tx Oriole]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Let's say they trade Britton, Brach, Smith, and Castillo. Duquette doesn't find any takers for Kim or O'Day.

1. The back end of your bullpen becomes Castro, Givens, O'Day. Not too shabby, really. O'Day and Givens can trade off as closer. You have Bleier and Hart doing well, Asher has done well in the bullpen this year so he's an option. Perhaps you give Scott a look.

2. Joseph is still a better defensive catcher than Castillo and he's been hitting, so I don't see a big loss there. Bring up Chance and get his feet wet in a backup role.

3. Smith can be replaced full time with Kim, and you have Santander as a long shot to return from injury. I don't think you lose all that much replacing Smith with Kim.

4. You punt Ubaldo and replace him with the young starter you receive for Britton. And if you feel like punting Miley, you could give his spot to Aquino.

This is all without even factoring in the position players or bullpen pieces you might acquire in any of these trades. I think the O's can sell AND improve at the same time. Not a guarantee, but possible.

Okay but I don't see a team that's fighting for a playoff is going to give you a starter for Britton. 

[interloper]

Just now, Tx Oriole said:

Okay but I don't see a team that's fighting for a playoff is going to give you a starter for Britton. 

Britton is not NOT going to bring back some type of starting pitcher. There's no chance you unload him without at least a top tier SP prospect who is close to the big leagues or has had a cup of coffee. 

[NCRaven]

12 minutes ago, interloper said:

Britton is not NOT going to bring back some type of starting pitcher. There's no chance you unload him without at least a top tier SP prospect who is close to the big leagues or has had a cup of coffee. 

Not necessarily.  If you trade with the Dodgers and got Beuhler and Verdugo, you do get a high ceiling starter that is now in AAA, but he just made his first start there and probably needs a little more time before he's major league ready.  So yes, you'd get a SP prospect that is "close" to the big leagues, but not quite ready.  Having said that, I agree that we could trade Britton, Brach, Smith and Castillo and not take a huge hit in team performance.

Zach Britton is proof of the fact that you can trade away a "Zack Britton" and be okay.  We did it with Johnson, turned to Hunter, and when he failed, there was Britton.  If we trade Britton, it'll be Givens or someone else that takes the role.  As good?  Maybe not, but we'll find a closer.

[Frobby]

I don't think we should kid ourselves that trading Britton and Brach won't hurt our bullpen significantly, or that Kim isn't a fairly big step down from Smith.    We'll be worse in those respects, but maybe some of the talent we get back will help us.

[interloper]

Just now, Frobby said:

I don't think we should kid ourselves that trading Britton and Brach won't hurt our bullpen significantly, or that Kim isn't a fairly big step down from Smith.    We'll be worse in those respects, but maybe some of the talent we get back will help us.

I admit it's a long shot, and the bullpen will definitely be downgraded. Basically, Tillman, Gausman, and Bundy would have to pitch like they did this week, and the Ubaldo replacement would have to be a very big upgrade to offset the bullpen downgrade.

[Il BuonO]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don't think we should kid ourselves that trading Britton and Brach won't hurt our bullpen significantly, or that Kim isn't a fairly big step down from Smith.    We'll be worse in those respects, but maybe some of the talent we get back will help us.

You don't think Givens could capably handle the closer role?

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Il BuonO said:

You don't think Givens could capably handle the closer role?

I think you split the role with O'Day. I'm thinking together they might convert 70-75% of the saves.

[interloper]

The bigger problem is getting a save situation to them.

[Il BuonO]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

I think you split the role with O'Day. I'm thinking together they might convert 70-75% of the saves.

That isn't handling it capably. And O'Day is not getting half the save opportunities. Givens should be able to convert north of 85%.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

You don't think Givens could capably handle the closer role?

Sure he can, but who handles the Givens role?    There's a domino effect when you take guys and move them up the ladder.

[interloper]

Just now, Il BuonO said:

That isn't handling it capably. And O'Day is not getting half the save opportunities. Givens should be able to convert north of 85%.

It would be dicey, for sure.

[Il BuonO]

Castro, maybe Wright. There's usually one to two guys able to step into bullpen roles.

Finding capable starters is the problem for this team.

My whole theory for the bullpen is the arms are interchangeable for the most part.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Castro, maybe Wright. There's usually one to two guys able to step into bullpen roles.

Finding capable starters is the problem for this team.

My whole theory for the bullpen is the arms are interchangeable for the most part.

See, I don't think so.    Our bullpen pitches a lot of innings and if you take two guys who have been doing a lot of really good middle relief and use them to replace two guys at the back end, your middle relief is going to suffer.    I'm willing to live with that for the long term good of the team, but realistically, it'll look like it did when Britton and O'Day were both out, and maybe a little worse (since O'Day isn't as good as Brach any more).

[Tx Oriole]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don't think we should kid ourselves that trading Britton and Brach won't hurt our bullpen significantly, or that Kim isn't a fairly big step down from Smith.    We'll be worse in those respects, but maybe some of the talent we get back will help us.

 

18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don't think we should kid ourselves that trading Britton and Brach won't hurt our bullpen significantly, or that Kim isn't a fairly big step down from Smith.    We'll be worse in those respects, but maybe some of the talent we get back will help us.

Yes I am sure there will be a step down but the O's just have to make deals to improve the team. 2018 and 2019 may be hard years. But improvement will come.  That I am sure of. Sell Mr. DD