It's a disgrace....

[pastorfan]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

The Orioles continue to illustrate that they have one of the dumbest and most out-of-touch front offices in professional sports. What a complete failure. 

I agree that they are out of touch, but it lies primarily with the owner. The owner should have made it clear what the direction would be heading into next year and beyond. For whatever reason other teams are able to trade guys and get suitable prospects, but we just can't seem to do that. It is staggering. I mean Brach's value will absolutely never be higher than right now.

[Teddy OBP]

4 minutes ago, cheecks said:

The values of both Machado and Britton will decline the longer we wait. The likely scenario will have us trading neither of these guys, and we will end up losing them for nothing.

I was on board with trading Britton and Brach for good packages. If they didn't get offered they didn't get offered.  We may not know.

If ZB is healthy and deals the rest of this season, I like the idea of having a market in the offseason that is 6-7 times what it is now. It also increases the type of player that can be included in the deal.

Ditto for Manny. I'd love to see him on a tear the rest of the season. He's not going to sign for a discount regardless, so they can offer him a giant extension in the offseason and deal him if he doesn't sign. I would probably do it this winter instead of waiting for the season for the same reasons as above.

[pastorfan]

43 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

They are going for broke in 2018, when everyone's contracts are up. The Orioles will be a very different team in 2019.

Well, they better be willing to spend some serious money on starting pitching. These geniuses should have gone for broke a few years ago while the Sox and Yanks were down...you know the year we let Cruz and Miller go.

[MurphDogg]

 

12 minutes ago, LC_O's_87 said:

The counter-argument is that Brach's value is highest now (no one can say the same about Britton and Machado) presciely because of the reasons you have cited.  Those arguing for trading Brach have decided that 2018 is a lost cause so cash on Brach now.

The counter-counter-argument is that maybe they trade Britton in the offseason and keep Brach for 2018.  They then net more/better prospects and clear more payroll as Brach will be far cheaper than Britton. Of course they are depleting the BP but on net, if Britton can get SP in return, they will be better off.

Yeah, I am not ready to declare 2018 a lost cause. If they could have gotten close to  2016 value for Britton then I was all for the trade, but Brach is still cheap (unlike Britton) and offers real value to the team.

[LC_O's_87]

Just now, pastorfan said:

Well, they better be willing to spend some serious money on starting pitching. These geniuses should have gone for broke a few years ago while the Sox and Yanks were down...you know the year we let Cruz and Miller go.

Can't disagree there.  I love throwing around Peter's money but instead of those 2 we ended up with Trumbo and O'Day.  Saved $5mil on O'Day and saved a bit more on Trumbo but not a heck of lot.

 

[BohKnowsBmore]

19 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

For less.  And the rebuild will be another year getting started.

This ascribes no value to them being members of a 2018 that may be a buyer rather than a seller. 

 

If you're only of the mind that we're done and need to blow it up ASAP, there's not much to be discussed I guess. 

[pastorfan]

3 minutes ago, pdiddy said:

I was on board with trading Britton and Brach for good packages. If they didn't get offered they didn't get offered.  We may not know.

If ZB is healthy and deals the rest of this season, I like the idea of having a market in the offseason that is 6-7 times what it is now. It also increases the type of player that can be included in the deal.

Ditto for Manny. I'd love to see him on a tear the rest of the season. He's not going to sign for a discount regardless, so they can offer him a giant extension in the offseason and deal him if he doesn't sign. I would probably do it this winter instead of waiting for the season for the same reasons as above.

Why would a team trade a lot for him when he a) will be expensive and b) is a Boras client which means he is going to free agency? For what he will cost teams can simply sign a guy like Wade Davis.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, MurphDogg said:

 

Yeah, I am not ready to declare 2018 a lost cause. If they could have gotten close to  2016 value for Britton then I was all for the trade, but Brach is still cheap (unlike Britton) and offers real value to the team.

I'm tired of fighting.

I'm tired of fighting.

Fighting for a lost cause.

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

This ascribes no value to them being members of a 2018 that may be a buyer rather than a seller. 

 

If you're only of the mind that we're done and need to blow it up ASAP, there's not much to be discussed I guess. 

Do you look at the probable roster next year and think it is at all likely they will be a contender?

I've lived through 1989 and 2012 so I know it's possible but likely? 

[DirtyBird]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Do you look at the probable roster next year and think it is at all likely they will be a contender?

I've lived through 1989 and 2012 so I know it's possible but likely? 

1B - Davis
2B - Schoop
SS - Beckham
3B - Machado
OF - Jones
OF - Hays
OF - Mancini
DH - Trumbo
C - Joseph

C - Sisco
IF - ????
OF - Santander
OF - Mullins/Rickard

SP - Gausman
SP - Bundy
SP - ????
SP - ????
SP - ????
RP - Castro
RP - Hart
RP - Givens
RP - O'Day
RP - Brach
RP - Britton

[SteveO]

I would have liked to see the O's make some moves that would have brought some prospects in this system. I am disappointed it did not happen but that being said, without knowing what offers were on the table its kinda hard to be overly critical. if the offers were so lacking for Britton that DD and Buck felt that letting Britton finish the year strong would bring a better return this offseason....I get that. If they kept Brach because they intend to team him with Givens to form the nucleus of the new backend....ok I can get that also. The Beckham trade.....lol now that just irks my soul.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Do you look at the probable roster next year and think it is at all likely they will be a contender?

I've lived through 1989 and 2012 so I know it's possible but likely? 

Yes. It's a lot of the same core that  won me division in 2014 and made playoffs in 2016. Moving on from Ubaldo and Miley is quite alluring as well. 

To compare the 2018 situation to the 1989 or 2012 teams headed into the season is pretty absurd. Those preceding teams were far worse than the 2017 orioles. If that's your comparison, I doubt we have much to discuss. 

[Can_of_corn]

And you think that is a likely contender?

With the Red Sox and the Yankees?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, BohKnowsBmore said:

Yes. It's a lot of the same core that  won me division in 2014 and made playoffs in 2016. Moving on from Ubaldo and Miley is quite alluring as well. 

To compare the 2018 situation to the 1989 or 2012 teams headed into the season is pretty absurd. Those preceding teams were far worse than the 2017 orioles. If that's your comparison, I doubt we have much to discuss. 

That same core will be older in 2018.  Older is generally not better.  Trumbo, Davis, Jones and O'Day are already showing their age.  The pitching is a larger question mark than it was this year.

[backwardsk]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you look at the probable roster next year and think it is at all likely they will be a contender?

I've lived through 1989 and 2012 so I know it's possible but likely? 

If you ascribe to the notion that if you make the playoffs, you are a contender, then yes.  We're 6.5 games out with historically bad SP and no production at SS.

2014 proved that if we have competent pitching, we are a very good team.