It's funny

[joelala]

If he's hurt, just shut him down.  We made our bed by being "buyers" at the deadline, and now it seems like we don't even wanna sleep in it.  Either our closer can secure us victories, or he needs to be shut down.  Period.

 

[Moshagge3]

5 hours ago, joelala said:

If he's hurt, just shut him down.  We made our bed by being "buyers" at the deadline, and now it seems like we don't even wanna sleep in it.  Either our closer can secure us victories, or he needs to be shut down.  Period.

 

Here is how the Orioles have used Zach Britton since the trading deadline, when the Orioles insisted he had similar value to Andrew Miller or Aroldis Chapman:

7/31 - pitches a scoreless ninth inning against KC and gets the win when the O's walkoff in the bottom of the inning.

8/1 - did not pitch

8/2 - DNP

8/3 - DNP

8/4 - DNP as Mychal Givens melts down in the 8th and blows a 2-1 lead

8/5 - does come in the 8th inning to relieve Brad Brach in the 8th to protect a 1-run lead with the tying run on second and two out. Stays on in the ninth to complete the save even though the Orioles score twice in the bottom of the 8th to make it a 3-run game. Britton's WPA is 0.117, less than Brach's, who pitches 1.2 innings in the same game.

8/6 - DNP

8/7 - DNP

8/8 - DNP

8/9 - comes into a game the O's are already down by three just to get work, admittedly isn't sharp.

8/10 - comes in to protect a 5-run lead (!), as Buck decides that Brach's strikeout followed by a walk on a close 3-2 pitch are unacceptable and removes him. After all, it has become a save situation. WPA is 0.016.

8/11 - DNP as Brad Brach is given a long leash to melt down in the 8th.

 

So since the Orioles have decided to keep Britton, he has been used to preserve a 3-run lead (admittedly it was closer when he entered) and a 5-run lead (!) and in that time the Orioles have allowed their 8th inning men to blow 1-run leads for losses while Britton sits. If anyone thinks the Orioles are getting Miller/Chapman value out of Britton these days, they are very wrong.

[eddie83]

22 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

Here is how the Orioles have used Zach Britton since the trading deadline, when the Orioles insisted he had similar value to Andrew Miller or Aroldis Chapman:

7/31 - pitches a scoreless ninth inning against KC and gets the win when the O's walkoff in the bottom of the inning.

8/1 - did not pitch

8/2 - DNP

8/3 - DNP

8/4 - DNP as Mychal Givens melts down in the 8th and blows a 2-1 lead

8/5 - does come in the 8th inning to relieve Brad Brach in the 8th to protect a 1-run lead with the tying run on second and two out. Stays on in the ninth to complete the save even though the Orioles score twice in the bottom of the 8th to make it a 3-run game. Britton's WPA is 0.117, less than Brach's, who pitches 1.2 innings in the same game.

8/6 - DNP

8/7 - DNP

8/8 - DNP

8/9 - comes into a game the O's are already down by three just to get work, admittedly isn't sharp.

8/10 - comes in to protect a 5-run lead (!), as Buck decides that Brach's strikeout followed by a walk on a close 3-2 pitch are unacceptable and removes him. After all, it has become a save situation. WPA is 0.016.

8/11 - DNP as Brad Brach is given a long leash to melt down in the 8th.

 

So since the Orioles have decided to keep Britton, he has been used to preserve a 3-run lead (admittedly it was closer when he entered) and a 5-run lead (!) and in that time the Orioles have allowed their 8th inning men to blow 1-run leads for losses while Britton sits. If anyone thinks the Orioles are getting Miller/Chapman value out of Britton these days, they are very wrong.

So both times they should of had him throwing at the start of the inning? 

Basically both Givens and Brach came up small and it is Buck's fault. Your method would have Britton up and warming the second the inning started.  

[Moshagge3]

5 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

So both times they should of had him throwing at the start of the inning? 

Basically both Givens and Brach came up small and it is Buck's fault. Your method would have Britton up and warming the second the inning started.  

I was at the game on the 5th and Zach was warming to start the 8th inning. It's not against the rules of baseball. But Britton should absolutely have been up last night as soon the go-ahead run was put on base.

[joelala]

Maybe Buck just doesn't like him. 

[eddie83]

1 hour ago, Moshagge3 said:

I was at the game on the 5th and Zach was warming to start the 8th inning. It's not against the rules of baseball. But Britton should absolutely have been up last night as soon the go-ahead run was put on base.

Of course it isn't. You also don't get your closer up everytime the 8th inning rolls around. I was asleep last night but it looks like it happened pretty fast.  There is no solution for Givens and Brach blowing games the last 2 Friday's. None. Britton aside they need to pitch better 

[Lucky_13]

You can't blame Buck on this one in my opinion. Brach is the 8th inning guy and it's his job to come in as the set up man and get the hold. The fact is last night he just sucked and didn't execute his pitches. I don't know why he was throwing a fastball in a two strike count against a free swinging young team.  He was called on to do his job against an inferior team and failed. 

[Cumberbundy]

These are playoff games, make them beat Britton, period. I like Brach & Givens but we have a unique toy & it's going to have to be deployed more often if we are serious about making a run. He should have plenty of innings in his arm. You just start the 8th with him, who cares about these silly spots where people are programmed to make certain moves. We are in our own unique situation & we don't need to count on Brach or Givens when Britton is rested. 

Force them to beat our best. Simple.

[Cumberbundy]

3 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

You can't blame Buck on this one in my opinion. Brach is the 8th inning guy and it's his job to come in as the set up man and get the hold. The fact is last night he just sucked and didn't execute his pitches. I don't know why he was throwing a fastball in a two strike count against a free swinging young team.  He was called on to do his job against an inferior team and failed. 

Humbly, that's not managing that's relying on a script. 

[joelala]

4 hours ago, Lucky_13 said:

You can't blame Buck on this one in my opinion. Brach is the 8th inning guy and it's his job to come in as the set up man and get the hold. The fact is last night he just sucked and didn't execute his pitches. I don't know why he was throwing a fastball in a two strike count against a free swinging young team.  He was called on to do his job against an inferior team and failed. 

That's the problem, though.  This respect we (Buck) seems to have for players "jobs."  I mean, in principle, its honorable, its great, and it undoubtedly has contributed to us having one of the tightest clubhouses in baseball.  But like Cumberbundy said, all that has to go out of the window when we are fighting for our lives.  As soon as Brach shows signs of faltering, you bring in your elite closer.  It's his job to get save the game.  That's why they're called "saves."  And we all know he's well rested enough to throw more than one inning.

4 hours ago, Cumberbundy said:

Humbly, that's not managing that's relying on a script. 

Yup, you beat me to it.

[joelala]

Unless he's hurt, which brings me back to my original point on this thread.  I'm pissed lol

[Tx Oriole]

7 hours ago, eddie83 said:

So both times they should of had him throwing at the start of the inning? 

Basically both Givens and Brach came up small and it is Buck's fault. Your method would have Britton up and warming the second the inning started.  

Too bad they didn't trade him at the deadline then.

[Spy Fox]

4 hours ago, Cumberbundy said:

These are playoff games, make them beat Britton, period. I like Brach & Givens but we have a unique toy & it's going to have to be deployed more often if we are serious about making a run. He should have plenty of innings in his arm. You just start the 8th with him, who cares about these silly spots where people are programmed to make certain moves. We are in our own unique situation & we don't need to count on Brach or Givens when Britton is rested. 

Force them to beat our best. Simple.

Managing to win as much as you can over 45 games is still pretty different than managing to win a one-game or playoff series situation. 

I agree that Buck could better use Britton in the most high-leverage situations. But I don't yet think Buck should manage every game like a true must-win.