Roch has been told the O's need 4 more starters

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

If it takes a major league contract to sign Tillman then let him walk. I'd rather have a new bad pitcher (to at least give me some hope) then an old bad pitcher. And team oriented or not, this is a business and Chris Tillman hasn't produced. Continuing to dump money into his "finger's crossed" resurgence would just be foolish. With the exception of Bundy and Gausman they should alleviate all of the stink from this year's starting rotation and clean house. Miley gone, Tillman gone, Ubaldo gone, and Hellickson gone. And don't let the door hitcha where the good lord splitcha.

You have a short memory.  Tillman was a difference maker from 2012 -2016.  The question is can he be again?  If the O's keep him, help him rehab and get him on a risk free contract, then its a good deal for the O's.

[wildbillhiccup]

18 hours ago, wildcard said:

You have a short memory.  Tillman was a difference maker from 2012 -2016.  The question is can he be again?  If the O's keep him, help him rehab and get him on a risk free contract, then its a good deal for the O's.

So you're an advocate fro bringing back Gallardo too? He's about the same age and had a much longer / successful run (2007-2015) than Tillman. Also, I can't believe you included Tillman's 2015 because his era was 4.99 that year. 

If Tillman had played for another club and posted the same numbers no one would be advocating signing him. Pitchers don't get better with age, once they reach their peak, they get worse. 

[wildcard]

19 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

So you're an advocate fro bringing back Gallardo too? He's about the same age and had a much longer / successful run (2007-2015) than Tillman. Also, I can't believe you included Tillman's 2015 because his era was 4.99 that year. 

If Tillman had played for another club and posted the same numbers no one would be advocating signing him. Pitchers don't get better with age, once they reach their peak, they get worse. 

Apparently you think it is going to easy to find the 4 major league starters the O's need this off season.  I don't.  If the O's have an edge to get Tillman back because he wants to play for the O's use it.   Protect the team with a low base and incentives.   

IMO you don't walk away from someone that has been  good in Camden Yards.  They rehab  him. They help him every way you can.   And they give him a chance next spring to show he can rebound.  If he does the O's have a solid starter with experience who loves to pitch for the O's.   If he can't come back then he should be DFA, pay him the 1m and offer  him to continue his rehab in Sarasota or the minors.   

 

[Il BuonO]

23 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Apparently you think it is going to easy to find the 4 major league starters the O's need this off season.  I don't.  If the O's have an edge to get Tillman back because he wants to play for the O's use it.   Protect the team with a low base and incentives.   

IMO you don't walk away from someone that has been  good in Camden Yards.  They rehab  him. They help him every way you can.   And they give him a chance next spring to show he can rebound.  If he does the O's have a solid starter with experience who loves to pitch for the O's.   If he can't come back then he should be DFA, pay him the 1m and offer  him to continue his rehab in Sarasota or the minors.   

 

That’s a pretty decent strategy and should be low risk if Buck doesn’t continue running him out there no matter what.

[wildbillhiccup]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Apparently you think it is going to easy to find the 4 major league starters the O's need this off season.  I don't.  If the O's have an edge to get Tillman back because he wants to play for the O's use it.   Protect the team with a low base and incentives.   

IMO you don't walk away from someone that has been  good in Camden Yards.  They rehab  him. They help him every way you can.   And they give him a chance next spring to show he can rebound.  If he does the O's have a solid starter with experience who loves to pitch for the O's.   If he can't come back then he should be DFA, pay him the 1m and offer  him to continue his rehab in Sarasota or the minors.   

 

The O's will most certainly have an edge...because they'll be one of the only teams vying for his services. And he certainly wasn't good at OPACY last season. You also conveniently dodged my Gallardo comparison. 

 

[OFFNY]

On 10/6/2017 at 1:14 PM, wildcard said:

 

Roch has been Told that the Orioles need 4 More Starters

 

o

 

4 more and 7 years ago ........

 

o

[Ruzious]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the O's go after former Ranger  Miles Mikolas - as a cheap veteran alternative.   He's spent the last 3 seasons in Japan and was dominant last season.  A 29 year old free agent who was mediocre at best before going to Japan, now says he wants to come back and play in the majors.  I don't know much about his stuff.  And we are short on players with Greek sounding names.      

[wildcard]

4 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

The O's will most certainly have an edge...because they'll be one of the only teams vying for his services. And he certainly wasn't good at OPACY last season. You also conveniently dodged my Gallardo comparison. 

 

The problem with Gallardo other then him not pitching well is that he had a guaranteed contract for this year.   The O's where lucky to get rid of him.   Signing Tillman to an low base salary  with incentive is very different.

[24fps]

On 10/9/2017 at 3:20 PM, wildcard said:

One of the first things that will happen this off season is the extension of Buck.  My guess  is for 3 years. JMO

All indications are that the O's are headed for a couple of mediocre to bad years after 2018.  I don't think they'll be as bad as some do, but why would Buck extend to manage a team that probably won't be a contender?

[foxfield]

On October 6, 2017 at 4:46 PM, tntoriole said:

4 free agent starters....ha, ha, ha.   So I suppose there are no other teams in baseball that need starters and that we will just have the entire field to ourselves....lol.   If we get two, I will be surprised.  One is more likely, four is absurd. 

4 FA. Yeah not happening. Besides if we got 4 FA starters it would be headlined by Chris Tillman. I do think it is possible to get 4 new starters and a massive upgrade. Sign 1, Trade for one, sign 2 come backers (Tillman Miggy) give Ynoa, Blier and Castro a shot out of the pen. 

 

 

[wildbillhiccup]

13 hours ago, wildcard said:

The problem with Gallardo other then him not pitching well is that he had a guaranteed contract for this year.   The O's where lucky to get rid of him.   Signing Tillman to an low base salary  with incentive is very different.

The only difference between Gallardo and Tillman is that Tillman pitched several more seasons for the Orioles so you're familiar with him. Like I said, I'm all for inviting Tillman to spring training, but the crux of this thread a few posts back was that we should actively court him so he won't sign with another team. Investing any amount of guaranteed money in Tillman would be a poor choice. 

[wildcard]

25 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

The only difference between Gallardo and Tillman is that Tillman pitched several more seasons for the Orioles so you're familiar with him. Like I said, I'm all for inviting Tillman to spring training, but the crux of this thread a few posts back was that we should actively court him so he won't sign with another team. Investing any amount of guaranteed money in Tillman would be a poor choice. 

So you are alright with signing him.  Just don't court him?   

The O's need good starters.  There will be risk with whoever they sign.  Risk in terms of cost.  Risk in terms of non performance.   Chris appears to be a pitcher who wants to sign with them at probably a low risk.   

We will see how the O's do this but I think the O's will probably take on more risk with others acquired for  the rotation than they will have by signing Tillman.

[24fps]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

So you are alright with signing him.  Just don't court him?   

The O's need good starters.  There will be risk with whoever they sign.  Risk in terms of cost.  Risk in terms of non performance.   Chris appears to be a pitcher who wants to sign with them at probably a low risk.   

We will see how the O's do this but I think the O's will probably take on more risk with others acquired for  the rotation than they will have by signing Tillman.

I would be alright with signing him, but I wouldn't court him.

His struggles in 2017 were significant and his history with the club makes signing him somewhat different than signing someone like Cobb or Lynn or the others.  If Tillman were to take a contract clearly dependent on his ability to show that he's healthy and capable of contributing as effectively as in the past, and divorced from prior history, then by all means.  But the burden is on him now, and so should be the assumption of risk.  The Orioles can't be concerned about losing out on a 'comeback' that may never happen.

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, 24fps said:

I would be alright with signing him, but I wouldn't court him.

His struggles in 2017 were significant and his history with the club makes signing him somewhat different than signing someone like Cobb or Lynn or the others.  If Tillman were to take a contract clearly dependent on his ability to show that he's healthy and capable of contributing as effectively as in the past, and divorced from prior history, then by all means.  But the burden is on him now, and so should be the assumption of risk.  The Orioles can't be concerned about losing out on a 'comeback' that may never happen.

I can't see how the O's sign him if they take that approach.  But I can see how if another team rehabs him  then the O's  have another starter who goes elsewhere and is successful.

[24fps]

5 hours ago, wildcard said:

I can't see how the O's sign him if they take that approach.  But I can see how if another team rehabs him  then the O's  have another starter who goes elsewhere and is successful.

I think the very worst thing the Orioles could possibly do is let the fear of Tillman being successful elsewhere enter into their decision making process, not that I would expect a professional to do such a thing.  If the Orioles can't sign him on their terms, no great loss judging by this season's results.  I would prefer the focus be elsewhere anyway.

FWIW I think at least a couple of teams will be willing to take a chance on Tillman rebounding including the Orioles.  I wouldn't do it if it tied up significant resources or required a major league contract but I don't make the call.