Who’s our GM & Manager Next Year?

[interloper]

1 hour ago, weams said:

Because there is no team president position in Baltimore, the EVP/GM gig is even more enticing to the thousands of people who think they qualify for one of these jobs. Of which there are 30. To my knowledge, the checks never bounced and It's been a while since one was fired in town. 

I'm sure Angelos is very picky, but the qualified candidates who aren't desperate will have an interview here and say "thanks but no thanks" because they see the environment. IMO, anyway. I'm not a Duquette hater, but it's no surprise that the guy who accepted the job had been out of the game for a decade. And the manager had been out of the game for several years himself. They both worked out, to varying degrees, but I'd like to remind you that we almost gave a job to Bobby Valentine before he laughed in our face.

HE laughed in OUR face.

[weams]

9 minutes ago, interloper said:

I'm sure Angelos is very picky, but the qualified candidates who aren't desperate will have an interview here and say "thanks but no thanks" because they see the environment. IMO, anyway. I'm not a Duquette hater, but it's no surprise that the guy who accepted the job had been out of the game for a decade. And the manager had been out of the game for several years himself. They both worked out, to varying degrees, but I'd like to remind you that we almost gave a job to Bobby Valentine before he laughed in our face.

HE laughed in OUR face.

[interloper]

Just now, weams said:

I still can't believe we dodged that bullet.

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, weams said:

Step to the front. Page. 

Thank you sir!!

[Frobby]

I’m not convinced that our GM job will be as hard to fill in 2018 as it was in 2011.     Yes there are still major issues, but (1) we haven’t had 14 losing seasons in a row, (2) several of the characters who were part of the pre-2011 dysfunction have been cleared out and anyone hired by Duquette would be subject to replacement at the new GM’s whim, and (3) it’s been established that it’s possible to build a winning team here.  This still might not be at the top of prospective GMs’ list of places to go, but it’s not like the better jobs open up all that often.    

[weams]

59 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m not convinced that our GM job will be as hard to fill in 2018 as it was in 2011.     Yes there are still major issues, but (1) we haven’t had 14 losing seasons in a row, (2) several of the characters who were part of the pre-2011 dysfunction have been cleared out and anyone hired by Duquette would be subject to replacement at the new GM’s whim, and (3) it’s been established that it’s possible to build a winning team here.  This still might not be at the top of prospective GMs’ list of places to go, but it’s not like the better jobs open up all that often.    

Agreed. 

[theocean]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I’m not convinced that our GM job will be as hard to fill in 2018 as it was in 2011.     Yes there are still major issues, but (1) we haven’t had 14 losing seasons in a row, (2) several of the characters who were part of the pre-2011 dysfunction have been cleared out and anyone hired by Duquette would be subject to replacement at the new GM’s whim, and (3) it’s been established that it’s possible to build a winning team here.  This still might not be at the top of prospective GMs’ list of places to go, but it’s not like the better jobs open up all that often.    

It's still one of thirty jobs. At a certain point, someone is going to want it. The Cleveland Browns keep finding coaches.

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I’m not convinced that our GM job will be as hard to fill in 2018 as it was in 2011.     Yes there are still major issues, but (1) we haven’t had 14 losing seasons in a row, (2) several of the characters who were part of the pre-2011 dysfunction have been cleared out and anyone hired by Duquette would be subject to replacement at the new GM’s whim, and (3) it’s been established that it’s possible to build a winning team here.  This still might not be at the top of prospective GMs’ list of places to go, but it’s not like the better jobs open up all that often.    

I guess I would agree that the situation a new GM would step into doesn't look as bad as things looked in 2011. But it's still won't be a great great situation.

The dysfunctionality has changed since Duquette arrived, but it's still here. The roles that Brady and John and Lou Angelos play are unclear, but they have increased in importance, and there's almost certainly nothing that a new GM would be able to do to change that. Nobody knows what will happen if the owner dies, or enters into a period of illness/decline that makes it difficult or impossible for him to run the team.

And the Orioles job is as tough as it was in 2011, in that the team's potential to draw fans and generate revenue has diminished with the success of the Nats, much of the MASN revenue flow to the team is in doubt, the other teams in the division are stronger (and younger) than they were, and the competitive disadvantage created by the lack of investment and drafting of international players has probably increased. The expectation of a winning team will be stronger:  "Dan Duquette gave us winning teams. Was Dan Duquette a better GM than you are?" 

I think the Oriole GM job will continue to be a tough sell.  I don't think proven GMs who might get hired elsewhere would take the job. (Angelos probably wouldn't meet their salary demands anyway.)  A young up-and-comer seems to me a much more likely bet.

[tntoriole]

9 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

I am sure, this has been posted here before.

But, good for a re-read:

https://www.pressboxonline.com/2017/06/15/can-the-orioles-keep-dan-duquette-and-buck-showalter-after-2018

 

I think Duquette’s agent wrote that...lol.  I am nowhere near as big a fan.  He has done some good things, some really poor choices.  

Time for change....if Buck wants to stay as manager or move up to GM, OK by me.  Brady would be a disaster, imho.  Dan needs to go, in my view.  

Doug Harris,  Rizzo’s assistant would be a great choice, imho.

Jason Macleod Assistant to Theo and Hoyer with the Cubs...

Kim Ng...first woman GM...would be a great choice.

JJ Piccolo, assistant in KC would be great though he would like get the KC job if Dayton Moore goes back to Atlanta

Kyle Stark would be a great choice too..imho...Cleveland then Pittsburgh 

Front Office biographies Kyle Stark, Director of Player Development Kyle Stark is in his third season as Pittsburgh's Director of Player Development. He was named to his current post on November 7, 2007. Stark is responsible for all aspects of the Player Development system, including the club's six affiliates in the United States as well as academies in the Dominican Republic and Venezuela. The Pirates player development system is focused on helping all players reach their potential - personally, mentally, physically, and fundamentally - and develop as professionals. This is accomplished through a relentless, systematic, and cohesive approach involving structured, consistent, progression-oriented instruction throughout the organization and detailed, written development plans for all players. In addition, he provides recommendations to General Manager Neal Huntington regarding personnel, strategic planning and decision making for the Baseball Operations department. Prior to joining Huntington's staff, Stark spent four years in Cleveland's Baseball Operations department, assisting in all areas of Scouting, Player Development and Major League Operations. In 2006 and 2007, Stark performed the baseball related duties of the Assistant Farm Director, oversaw the club's efforts in Pacific Rim Scouting, and coordinated the club's Advanced Scouting which included providing scouting reports on upcoming opponents.

 

 

 

[billw76]

What's the fascination with Brady? Is he only an option because how close he is to Angelos?

I honestly have no clue who will be GM or manager next season. I'm only hoping that some decisions are made a little sooner than decisions to build the roster.

[tntoriole]

5 hours ago, foxfield said:

These GM jobs are rare jobs and even with the myriad of issues in Baltimore, it has become too easy to blame DD.  He is not and has not been perfect and I would gladly be open to another direction....But I continue to caution anyone who thinks bringing success here is simple.  It is not.  

Brady Anderson as GM? Because Angelos likes him?  I saw this show, it was called Syd Thrift.  I'll pass.  With Angelos we have disfunction.  We have had names, and no-names, winners, and losers...we have had mixed results at best.  I'd like to note that if you look at Peter Angelos' wiki page, you will see that two weeks after Sports Illustrated named PA as the worst owner in baseball...Brady Anderson wrote a Op-Ed piece in the Baltimore Sun saying that PA was in fact one of the Best Owners in sports.

I have always admired PA. But there is no way around this fact.  He runs a dysfunctional franchise.  Once considered the best run franchise in sports, the Orioles since 1993, in the best baseball stadium in the world, have endured 25 seasons.  8 of the first 9 had attendance numbers above 3 Million.  None since 2001 and with DC having it's own team it will never see 3 million fans in one season again.  Of the 25 seasons, 20 have ended without playoffs and of those 20 non playoff seasons, 16 were losing seasons and 1 was a .500 season.  

So yes, as hard as it is to get past all of the harm that DD has done to the beloved Orioles I ask all of us to look back at 25 years of baseball under Peter Angelos.  If you are counting at home, DD has produced 4 of the 9 winning seasons and 3 of 5 of the playoff seasons.  And yes the only non winning non losing season was his as well (the .500 season).  That is in 6 years.

Brady Anderson, as GM will see the return to losing upon losing, with continued losing and losing.

 

 

I agree only to an extent and most of that is  about Brady being a disaster.  I think much more highly of Andy Macphail’s work and give him much more credit than you do which is none in the above post.  Much of the core group was assembled or picked before Dan arrived including inheriting the best manager in baseball...yes, that group then won as we all know, but Dan also did not get that group over the top to a World Series despite a major window of opportunity.  His performance for the last two seasons since the dalliance with Toronto after the division winning season has been not good, imho. And he has left us facing a potential falling off the cliff beginning last season, likely continuing this season and into the next seasons.    I would not extend him if I were the owner today. 

[atomic]

DD won't be back next year because he won't want the job.  He tried to leave once and Angelo's wouldn't let him.   He should be able to get a job with another team where he will have more control. 

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

I agree only to an extent and most of that is  about Brady being a disaster.  I think much more highly of Andy Macphail’s work and give him much more credit than you do which is none in the above post.  Much of the core group was assembled or picked before Dan arrived including inheriting the best manager in baseball...yes, that group then won as we all know, but Dan also did not get that group over the top to a World Series despite a major window of opportunity.  His performance for the last two seasons since the dalliance with Toronto after the division winning season has been not good, imho. And he has left us facing a potential falling off the cliff beginning last season, likely continuing this season and into the next seasons.    I would not extend him if I were the owner today. 

What you have said is false During the division winning season 5 of the 6 starters were DD acquisitions.  DD teams didn't score more runs than 60 win Macphail teams they just cut a run off ERA.   Also our farm system seems to be pretty solid now. Macphail had two total misses on top 5 picks.

[tntoriole]

50 minutes ago, cimota said:

What you have said is false During the division winning season 5 of the 6 starters were DD acquisitions.  DD teams didn't score more runs than 60 win Macphail teams they just cut a run off ERA.   Also our farm system seems to be pretty solid now. Macphail had two total misses on top 5 picks.

How would those 5 starters have done without JJ Hardy, Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, Chris Davis, Manny Machado, Matt Wieters and Buck Showalter?  

Has Dan added that kind of talent to this organization?  Absolutely not,imho He added  some important pieces in those early years for which he has gotten all the credit ever since and any blame for anything has always been diverted to Angelos.  He finished dead last in 2017.  He has done zero thus far to make 2018 any different.  I disagree with your “solid” assessment of our system.  I think the organization will not be on the  upswing when he leaves after this year and, in fact, will likely have to endure a major rebuild under the next guy (or girl.) 

 

[foxfield]

55 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

I agree only to an extent and most of that is  about Brady being a disaster.  I think much more highly of Andy Macphail’s work and give him much more credit than you do which is none in the above post.  Much of the core group was assembled or picked before Dan arrived including inheriting the best manager in baseball...yes, that group then won as we all know, but Dan also did not get that group over the top to a World Series despite a major window of opportunity.  His performance for the last two seasons since the dalliance with Toronto after the division winning season has been not good, imho. And he has left us facing a potential falling off the cliff beginning last season, likely continuing this season and into the next seasons.    I would not extend him if I were the owner today. 

 

45 minutes ago, cimota said:

What you have said is false During the division winning season 5 of the 6 starters were DD acquisitions.  DD teams didn't score more runs than 60 win Macphail teams they just cut a run off ERA.   Also our farm system seems to be pretty solid now. Macphail had two total misses on top 5 picks.

In a way, I take issue with both sides here.   TNT, I didn't give credit to AM in my above post, but my post was not about credit as much as it was about how much losing has occurred in the last 25 years.  But I supported AM when he was here and defend him still.  He laid a foundation that allowed DD to be successful.  That said, his tenure did more to regain some respect within baseball that is still below where it was when you and I first became Oriole fans.  Andy Macphail did not hire Buck Showalter or more accurately did so when he was told to do so.  But that is not relevant...both men deserve credit but it's tricky to stretch who did what based on acquisition.  Mark Trumbo is a perfect example.  His acquisition was brilliant and worked to perfection.  It should have meant that Trumbo replaced Chris Davis but alas that did not happen and then Trumbo leaving did not happen....he was resigned, which could still work, but is pretty deep in a hole today.  There are moves I lay at DD's feet and you laid them out well last night.  But I don't blame him for resigning Trumbo, or signing Davis.

My point is AM's teams were terrible and while that suckitude produced Matt Wieters and Manny Machado, the losses were unbearable.  The trade of Bedard is legendary and pays dividends today.   DD said he would win from day one and has delivered.  He may well leave the team in a bad spot and I have said repeatedly his final grade is still to be determined.  But the facts are he has delivered 4 winning seasons, 1 .500 season and this years losing season.  The 19 years that preceded him produced 15 losing seasons.  I also said, I would be open to a change...so in your words, I may not extend him either.  I simply believe that we easily dismiss him, when the indisputable fact is he is the most successful GM in the Angelos era.

Cimota, TNT makes the very fair and reasonable point that any "credit" to DD has to acknowledge some foundational work done by AM.  As I try to say above, it is dangerous to say for example that everyone was here already.  I say this because DD could have traded any of those folks and as his detractors point out traded perhaps some folks who kept him from getting us back to the WS.  I think THAT criticism is fair.  I think the debate on credit is fair, but I think acquisition is not really the ideal way to make that determination.

Finally, If DD left today, without signing a pitcher or anyone else to go with this roster, the team, and the farm are better than when he got here.  As Frobby points out above, even with the Oriole specific "issues" this job will be easier for the next guy. All of that said, we are in a sticky situation between trying to compete and trying to rebuild and trading say Manny or all of our prospects for one or two starters could rework the above opinion.  Its an unfinished job and I appreciate the desire to have a new GM...but any fair comparison of DD to his Peter Angelos companions is favorable, even if you ding him for not resigning like Hemond and Gillick.