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Orioles: Most inept organization in all of profesional sports?

foxfield

By foxfield
in Orioles Talk

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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24 minutes ago, SteveA said:

 If a less dysfunctional hierarchy is needed and Buck is not willing to just be a manager, then after the season we'll let him quietly walk into the sunset.   But he isn't going to be fired during the season and anyone who thinks he is, is just dreaming.

I don't know that they've ever had a lasting, functional managerial hierarchy under Peter Angelos.  The last seven or eight years is closest they've come.

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Three Run Homer Hangout Veteran Council

Three Run Homer

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4 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I know people like simple answers and straightforward solutions, but looking at the Orioles organization as a whole and deciding that the record over the last 40 games is entirely/mostly/predominantly the fault of Buck's managing is more than a little myopic.

A new manager isn't going to make Caleb Joseph hit, or Chris Davis, or Tim Beckham.  Buck isn't the reason Tillman and Cobb have allowed 30 runs in 18 innings.

And, no, they don't have to fire him.  He'll probably just retire at the end of the season.

I don't think they should fire Buck now, but Buck is the main reason that Caleb Joseph instead of Chance Sisco is the regular catcher.  He is the main reason that the team re-signed Tillman and committed a starting rotation slot to him.  He is responsible for calling up Cobb before he had a chance to stretch himself out in the minors.  Buck doesn't play but he had a large hand in picking the players.  

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TouchemAll Hangout Grand Counsel

TouchemAll

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29 minutes ago, SteveA said:

If Buck has to go, either now or at the end of the season, it would be not because of his managing.   It would be because of the input he had into personnel decisions (and all we have on that are rumors, but if they are true then he has hurt the team with that input).

But as for managing... Buck's Orioles have exceeded their PECOTA prediction for wins 7 straight years.   And 8 is not out of the question yet, believe it or not.   I seriously doubt whoever the next manager we get will match that record.

If he has to go because his team-building ambitions and skills have affected the organization badly, so be it.  If a less dysfunctional hierarchy is needed and Buck is not willing to just be a manager, then after the season we'll let him quietly walk into the sunset.   But he isn't going to be fired during the season and anyone who thinks he is, is just dreaming.

I agree Bucks not going any where, BUT I can't imagine any one other then Buck wanting Tillman back.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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1 minute ago, Three Run Homer said:

I don't think they should fire Buck now, but Buck is the main reason that Caleb Joseph instead of Chance Sisco is the regular catcher.  He is the main reason that the team re-signed Tillman and committed a starting rotation slot to him.  He is responsible for calling up Cobb before he had a chance to stretch himself out in the minors.  Buck doesn't play but he had a large hand in picking the players.  

How do you know that Buck is responsible for those things?  Isn't dynamic between Duquette, Angelos(es), Buck, Brady and the other members of the organization largely a matter of speculation and third-hand rumors?

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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2 minutes ago, TouchemAll said:

I agree Bucks not going any where, BUT I can't imagine any one other then Buck wanting Tillman back.

I certainly could.  How many pitchers have the Orioles dumped months or even years after people here called for their heads and turned it around somewhere else?  Remember when Bud Norris was the flavor of the week, career absolutely over, just release him already.  Guess who struck out 74 in 66 innings for the Angels last year, and is now the Cards closer with 17 Ks in 9 innings?  How about Pedro Strop?  How about Jake Arrieta?  What about Miguel Gonzalez?  You know Tommy Hunter last year threw 58 innings to a 2.61? 

I assume that when Tillman is release he'll go to another organization and in three months or three years he'll have a season where he wins 10+ games and throws 175 innings to a 3.75.

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TouchemAll Hangout Grand Counsel

TouchemAll

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1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I certainly could.  How many pitchers have the Orioles dumped months or even years after people here called for their heads and turned it around somewhere else?  Remember when Bud Norris was the flavor of the week, career absolutely over, just release him already.  Guess who struck out 74 in 66 innings for the Angels last year, and is now the Cards closer with 17 Ks in 9 innings?  How about Pedro Strop?  How about Jake Arrieta?  What about Miguel Gonzalez?  You know Tommy Hunter last year threw 58 innings to a 2.61? 

I assume that when Tillman is release he'll go to another organization and in three months or three years he'll have a season where he wins 10+ games and throws 175 innings to a 3.75.

I agree your right and that's no ringing endorsement for the O's pitching development is it. and I'll stick with Tillman's here because of Buck JMHO.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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2 hours ago, eddie83 said:

Dan Connolly seems to think Buck will be back. 

http://www.baltimorebaseball.com/2018/04/19/firing-someone-may-send-message-wont-make-2018-orioles-better/

Found this interesting. "Heck, the one that looks to be the worst at this juncture, $161 million over seven years for Davis, was nearly exclusively ownership’s." Not the accepted cannon here. Most seem to want to blame Buck and/or Brady.

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Aglets Hangout Grand Counsel

Aglets

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9 minutes ago, atomic said:

Kind of strange that a thread with 19 pages of replies in a few days has a one star rating. If it is such a bad thread why reply? 

This thread is JTrea quality.  His threads would get tons of replies too, from many very aggravated/frustrated people.

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SteveA Hangout Grand Counsel

SteveA

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55 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't know that they've ever had a lasting, functional managerial hierarchy under Peter Angelos.  The last seven or eight years is closest they've come.

Seems like under McPhail things were pretty stable?

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SteveA Hangout Grand Counsel

SteveA

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14 minutes ago, atomic said:

Kind of strange that a thread with 19 pages of replies in a few days has a one star rating. If it is such a bad thread why reply? 

Because firing a manager in April is done in the majors about once a decade, and is usually an idiotic, reactionary move.   And when it is done, it is done to a guy who is a proven failure, not one that has multiple manager of the year awards and has managed his team to a better record than Sabrmetric projections for seven consecutive years.

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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

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17 minutes ago, Aglets said:

This thread is JTrea quality.  His threads would get tons of replies too, from many very aggravated/frustrated people.

Not really.  Someone just posted odds of managers getting fired and buck was like even odds and number one by a long shot.  When your team has won less than 25 percent of the games it has played int he last 40 it is pretty normal to think the manager might get fired.  The team finished in last place last season and is in last place now.  They spent a bunch of money to upgrade the rotation and no results.  

Also people complain about Buck sticking with Tillman when he is clearly done.  But that is what your support for Buck is.  You want to keep Buck for sentimental reasons.   When he has clearly lost the team and is making decisions almost everyone disagrees with.   People also are complaining about the pitching and hitting coaches Buck hired.  Complaining that Buck moved Manny to Short.  Really complaining  about everything  he has done. 

 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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31 minutes ago, atomic said:

Kind of strange that a thread with 19 pages of replies in a few days has a one star rating. If it is such a bad thread why reply? 

I didn’t know that thread ratings were still a thing.    I have no problem with the topic, though I think it’s way premature to consider any such action and that the O’s won’t do it in any event.   

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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

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16 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Because firing a manager in April is done in the majors about once a decade, and is usually an idiotic, reactionary move.   And when it is done, it is done to a guy who is a proven failure, not one that has multiple manager of the year awards and has managed his team to a better record than Sabrmetric projections for seven consecutive years.

Has Buck managed a team that has gotten to the World Series?  I mean what does he have 20 years experience?  Didn't the teams win the World Series right after he was fired?  Didn't the team do just as poorly with Buck in 2011 as they did the previous years with Trembley who was a pretty awful manager? 

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eddie83 Hangout Grand Counsel

eddie83

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2 hours ago, SteveA said:

Posted that in this thread a couple hours ago, but none of the sharks took time from the feeding frenzy to read it, I guess.

My bad. 

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday. I told him Buck is the face of the franchise turnaround. He is not going to be fired.  

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