Orioles: Most inept organization in all of profesional sports?

[spiritof66]

23 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Just remember the Astros lost 324 games in three years.  Watch what you wish for.  Sure, things worked out and they eventually won, but they had 36 months of the 2018 Orioles, then in '14 dramatically improved to a little bit worse than the 2017 Orioles.

Sit back and relax, fasten your seatbelt, it might get a little rough in here.

I'm not eager to see a few years of bad baseball while the Orioles rebuild, and I think that "a few years" is optimistic. If the 90-plus loss seasons last for, say, ten more years, I think there's a real possibility of Baltimore losing the Orioles -- depending on about a thousand other factors.

Are you -- or is anyone at this point who's not named Angelos -- suggesting that there's any viable alternative? I can't tell.  

[spiritof66]

43 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

The lineup today looks like a Sarasota game after the fifth inning.

The posted lineup has Peterson, Gentry and Santander in the OF, Pedro, Manny, Vielma and of course Davis in the IF,  and Caleb at C. We may be in for some four- and five-out innings. 

The cost of getting all these sterling glove guys on the field is six guys hitting .209 or lower.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

21 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I'm not eager to see a few years of bad baseball while the Orioles rebuild, and I think that "a few years" is optimistic. If the 90-plus loss seasons last for, say, ten more years, I think there's a real possibility of Baltimore losing the Orioles -- depending on about a thousand other factors.

Are you -- or is anyone at this point who's not named Angelos -- suggesting that there's any viable alternative? I can't tell.  

Whether we like it or not we're in the midst of some kind of rebuild.  The Orioles are going to have a top five pick this year, and possibly for quite a few years.

I don't think they need to lose 320-odd games over the next three years, though.

[brianod]

Angelos has a history of being a terrible owner.  But, he's a zillion years old.  I doubt he's even involved any more. DD has been terrible since we didn't let him go to Toronto.  We should have bought his ticket out of here. But, he's still a lot better then the laughable GMs of nineties. Buck is old and set in his ways, but he's not the problem.  So, everyone that wants an answer, here it is. We suck because the deck is stacked against us. If you look at the current standings, you will see the Yankees and RedSox once again dominant. Why is that?  Anyone that thinks it's because our management is incompetent and their management are rocket scientists are myopic fools. Baseball has needed a salary cap for 50 years now.  It is the only major sport without one. So, our window was the 2-4 years where the monsters of our division were retooling. I don't blame our management for attempting to keep it open too long. It would have been easier to give up. We went for one more year and it has failed.  Too bad.  But, all the people looking at the O's and their failures without taking into account the fact that our rivals spend 2-3 times more then us are off on a tangent.

[foxfield]

On 12/22/2017 at 7:58 PM, foxfield said:

I do not post many threads and after this I may not post any more.

I am a life long fan.  I bleed orange and black like so many others here.  I think DD gets more grief than deserved here, but there is something that hit me yesterday amid everyone's frustration.  We don't have a plan.  In all of the years of following the O's.  From the years where they were one of the best run franchises in all of sports, to the dark days where many considered the O's to be a laughingstock.  I have been there and I have supported and I have hung on for the ride.  But where we are right now simply does not make any sense to me and I don't understand why it is not a bigger deal here or in the national media.  There is no plan.  Unless the plan is for the world as we know it to end somewhere between now and the end of the 2018 season.  I want to be fair.  The Orioles have been subjected to some seriously bad, maybe historically bad luck.

The Orioles should have traded Manny or Britton earlier.  Sure, today that is obvious and many here advocated the same long ago.  But the O's have been in the thick of it for all of DD's tenure and I don't really care if you think he inherited every bit of the success or literally manufactured every bit of it from a piece of wheat.  They have been in it.  Trading pieces, even this past year at the break was a risk and as late as the first week in September the O's were only a couple games out of the playoffs.  Sure, if only they/we knew the bottom would fall out.  Again, I don't care to really pick apart the seasons of not really adding pitching when the "window" was open or ripping the manager for not using the games best reliever in the heat of the moment.  My question or observation is simply this.  At the end of 2017 the Orioles finished last and there simply is no plan for what to do after that...and to be fair, the lack of a plan would have been the same if we had taken the Yankees spot and come within one game of going to the World Series.

There may be no other organization in sports as bereft of a plan as the current Orioles are.  I posted in the "What was communicated?" thread some observations that I repeat here:

There were two ways to go after the ‘17 season. Rebuild totally (possibly partially) or go all in for pitching. Both directions had risk but potential rewards. Even Roch posted an article saying the same.  There have been people here on both sides making their cases.  No mater which side people were on,  every person seems to understand that doing neither, staying in the middle, would be a disaster. 

I don't care where we place the blame.  Really.  You want to blame DD?  Fine. Buck?  Be my guest. Team leader AJ? Sure have at it.  No organization in Sports has no plan.  Some have bad plans. Some have good plans but poorly implement them. But responsibility for any organization falls first and foremost at the top.  With Ownership.  The Orioles in 2017 had one of the highest payrolls in baseball.  Not top 5 to be fair, but the idea that the owner is cheap doesn't hold water.  The Orioles spend money.  But why?  When?  The fragmented structure of decision making is unquestionably one of the weakest in professional sports.  Only the Orioles could go into an off season with the following set of facts:

1) GM on final year of contract

2) Manager on final year. 

3) Best player on final year. 

4) Best reliever on final year.

5) Team leader on final year.

6) Not willing to sign free agents.

7) Not willing to trade.

8) Three openings in rotation.

Needing three starting pitchers, who would sign with the Orioles knowing the above?  No one who wants anything more than a chance to reestablish themselves after a year.  Who would want to join an organization where virtually EVERY important person is in the last year of his deal.  Manny is clearly leaving when he can.  That may not really be the fault of the organization as he may not want to be here.  Britton literally said that his injury is not how he wanted to end his career here.  But look around...WHY would anyone but us fans be here beyond 2018?  

The ONLY plan that I can take out of the above is that the owner believes that the MASN legal situation resolves itself and the team is sold to someone else during next year.  I wouldn't consider it a good plan, but absent all available evidence, it would at least be a plan.  But walking into this off season with the above 8 facts is not a plan.  Sign your GM or fire him.   Let him extend or replace the manager.  Let whoever is in charge manage the roster to bring the best results to the BALTIMORE ORIOLES.   I hate what the Marlins are doing, but at least it is a plan.

So, as we crash and disintegrate, I ask again, what is the plan...and who is calling the shots.  The media seems to think that Dan will be let go very soon and yet many of those same reports indicate that Brady has gained considerable power.  Um, I really don't care when, but before we start trading assets, perhaps naming a GM and giving him power would be the move to make.

I cant see fretting about whether we have to watch Chris Davis bat 4th or 7th, or whether we should or should not DFA Chris Tillman.  We suck either way.  We need a plan and someone with authority to drive the plan.  Many here would say that is not DD.  Fine, but as Brady and Buck have had greater say, the results have gotten worse.

They all break.  Clean house.

[Frobby]

On 4/13/2018 at 8:17 PM, Frobby said:

I consider myself to be as patient as any member of this board.   Today was the last straw.    Release  Tillman.  

I wrote that 4 weeks ago.   I’m now at the point where if Tillman isn’t released, I’ll be ready to fire every single person in management.    

You can’t imagine what it takes for me to say something like that.  I loved Tillman’s demeanor and what he brought to this team from 2012-16.    It kills me that he can’t pitch anymore.   I feel terrible for the guy.    But this is utterly ridiculous.    

[waroriole]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I wrote that 4 weeks ago.   I’m now at the point where if Tillman isn’t released, I’ll be ready to fire every single person in management.    

You can’t imagine what it takes for me to say something like that.  I loved Tillman’s demeanor and what he brought to this team from 2012-16.    It kills me that he can’t pitch anymore.   I feel terrible for the guy.    But this is utterly ridiculous.    

That is nothing but Buck. Fire Buck

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I wrote that 4 weeks ago.   I’m now at the point where if Tillman isn’t released, I’ll be ready to fire every single person in management.    

You can’t imagine what it takes for me to say something like that.  I loved Tillman’s demeanor and what he brought to this team from 2012-16.    It kills me that he can’t pitch anymore.   I feel terrible for the guy.    But this is utterly ridiculous.    

Melville is scheduled to start in Norfolk tomorrow night.  I think he get pulled from that start and starts for the O's on Saturday in the first game of the doubleheader.   He may be the 26th man but he may stay and join the  5 man rotation.

Rickard is probably also up with the O's in the leadoff spot sometime this weekend dropping Mancini down in the order.

[24fps]

12 hours ago, Frobby said:

I wrote that 4 weeks ago.   I’m now at the point where if Tillman isn’t released, I’ll be ready to fire every single person in management.    

You can’t imagine what it takes for me to say something like that.  I loved Tillman’s demeanor and what he brought to this team from 2012-16.    It kills me that he can’t pitch anymore.   I feel terrible for the guy.    But this is utterly ridiculous.    

Me too, and at this point trotting him out there every fifth day does a disservice to that.  The Orioles have to do the right thing here which begins with removing him from the rotation.  If they can figure out a way to do that and pay him the balance of his contract, fine by me, but he's not a major league pitcher right now.

[LA2]

18 hours ago, waroriole said:

That is nothing but Buck. Fire Buck

It's just as much Brady.

[mdbdotcom]

6 hours ago, 24fps said:

Me too, and at this point trotting him out there every fifth day does a disservice to that.  The Orioles have to do the right thing here which begins with removing him from the rotation.  If they can figure out a way to do that and pay him the balance of his contract, fine by me, but he's not a major league pitcher right now.

Brady was released by the O's with a full year and $4mm left on his contract. Release Tillman and put everyone out of their misery.

[waroriole]

1 hour ago, LA2 said:

It's just as much Brady.

Ok. Fire him too

[Tx Oriole]

21 hours ago, waroriole said:

That is nothing but Buck. Fire Buck

What good is that going to do you? I am not saying he needs to be retained. I think it's a tricky situation though. A GM needs to be hired first. That could be difficult. Who wants to work for Angelos? 

[fansince71]

organization in base ball.

Didn't see this posted anywheres and its nothing we don't already know.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2018/05/12/how-orioles-became-most-dysfunctional-organization-baseball/gZx5qyDTYFmhCb53KDQ3dI/story.html

[Frobby]

Yeah, nothing new there.   Also, Cafardo is an unabashed Duquette booster and it’s not surprising he would write a piece in which Duquette comes off as a victim.   (Not that there isn’t some truth to that.)