Can We Hit a Pause Button with the Personal Attacks on Players? Let's Focus on the Big Picture.

[weams]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

We can still drop subtle digs at other posters right?

I always thought so. Friendly banter at least. 

[Rene88]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't care if he hits like Davis, I'd like to see that glove in the outfield. 

Well you could have said that 2 years ago? But bigger picture is his bat isnt ready. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Rene88 said:

Well you could have said that 2 years ago? But bigger picture is his bat isnt ready. 

I think Jones is significantly worse in the outfield now compared to two years ago.

[El Gordo]

56 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think there’s a difference between critiquing a player’s abilities (which includes the ability to stay healthy) and a “personal attack” on a player.   To me, a personal attack means attacking the player’s character, work ethic, hustle, etc.    Whereas saying a guy has lost bat speed or can’t hit a curve ball is something else entirely.     

But people are attacking CD's character, saying he isn't putting in the work doesn't care, etc.

[Barnaby Graves]

5 minutes ago, elgordo said:

But people are attacking CD's character, saying he isn't putting in the work doesn't care, etc.

Whether that's true or false, it's been corroborated by arguably the franchise's most important alumnus, so there's some credibility to the idea he isn't working hard enough.

You get extra scrutiny when you have a big contract, you get extra scrutiny when you suck.  When you have a huge contract and also are on pace for, literally, the worst season of anyone who has ever been in your business, you better be ready for it.  He looks like he has forgotten how to do anything.  It doesn't absolve the Orioles for their part of this debacle, but they had a reasonable expectation of Chris Davis looking like a professional baseball player.  And right now he doesn't.

[weams]

13 minutes ago, elgordo said:

But people are attacking CD's character, saying he isn't putting in the work doesn't care, etc.

I don't know that that has been refuted, has it been? 

[gtman55]

I would never attack Chris Davis personally. I have no idea what goes on or is going on in his head. But he signed the biggest contract ever by an Oriole and he isn't just underperforming. He's playing in a historical bad way. And there's not much we can do. No one would ever trade for him. Angelos isn't releasing him with the guaranteed money. It's a really bad situation. And ultimately it's terrible for the Orioles and it's fans going forward.

[weams]

7 minutes ago, gtman55 said:

I would never attack Chris Davis personally. I have no idea what goes on or is going on in his head. But he signed the biggest contract ever by an Oriole and he isn't just underperforming. He's playing in a historical bad way. And there's not much we can do. No one would ever trade for him. Angelos isn't releasing him with the guaranteed money. It's a really bad situation. And ultimately it's terrible for the Orioles and it's fans going forward.

I think, like the Ubaldo deal, that it  will certainly curtail the willingness of ownership to spend like this again. 

[thezeroes]

4 minutes ago, weams said:

I think, like the Ubaldo deal, that it  will certainly curtail the willingness of ownership to spend like this again.  

And this makes me happy.  I liked it when there were no more than three year deals with Fourth/Fifth year options.  I would also prefer two year deals with the play-in options of Plate Appearances/Starts/Games.  If you perform to expectations dangle the Carrot if you don't wield the Machete.

I know that a lot of free agents would shun the team because of this BUT how many live up to their respective contracts???

[Santandah]

I think it's more the ability of ownership to make this kind of deal. Not the willingness.

The O's signed Ubaldo for 4 years $50 million. They signed Cobb for 4 years $57 million. 

The problem with the Davis deal is that, along with the Cobb deal, it curtails their ability to include deferred money in larger contracts because that future bill is already getting rather large. And of course having $17 million of roster dead weight per year (Davis' actual salary when discounting for the deferred money) obviously hurts the budget. 

[24fps]

26 minutes ago, gtman55 said:

I would never attack Chris Davis personally. I have no idea what goes on or is going on in his head. But he signed the biggest contract ever by an Oriole and he isn't just underperforming. He's playing in a historical bad way. And there's not much we can do. No one would ever trade for him. Angelos isn't releasing him with the guaranteed money. It's a really bad situation. And ultimately it's terrible for the Orioles and it's fans going forward.

That remains to be seen.  At some point a compelling business case will be made that it's more profitable in the long term to cut ties with Davis and eat the contract.  My guess is that discussion takes place after the end of this season given how many contracts expire and how many (presumed) allies will be gone.

[Rene88]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think Jones is significantly worse in the outfield now compared to two years ago.

No argument but there is no sense in bringing up Mullings when he isn’t ready.

[Rene88]

2 minutes ago, 24fps said:

That remains to be seen.  At some point a compelling business case will be made that it's more profitable in the long term to cut ties with Davis and eat the contract.  My guess is that discussion takes place after the end of this season given how many contracts expire and how many (presumed) allies will be gone.

Agree 100% They def give him next Spring Training, at a minimum, as they should. We won’t be playing for anything meaningful so...

[NashLumber]

8 minutes ago, 24fps said:

That remains to be seen.  At some point a compelling business case will be made that it's more profitable in the long term to cut ties with Davis and eat the contract.  My guess is that discussion takes place after the end of this season given how many contracts expire and how many (presumed) allies will be gone.

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I wonder if the continued cloud over a sub-performing Davis (and we’re talking supersonic lows) eventually affects attendance and ballpark merch (and even online merch) in a big way. Would finally cutting ties help shore up those areas and make some kind of helpful dent in the remaining contract payout owed and deferred money thereafter? It just seems that putting out a diseased (metaphorically)and weakened line-up featuring Davis beyond this year would just be a drag on ballpark & merch revenue. Letting him go / releasing him in ‘19 would seem a positive silver lining if there would be revenue improvement. He sure isn’t drawing anyone to the park now. 

[24fps]

3 minutes ago, NashLumber said:

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I wonder if the continued cloud over a sub-performing Davis (and we’re talking supersonic lows) eventually affects attendance and ballpark merch (and even online merch) in a big way. Would finally cutting ties help shore up those areas and make some kind of helpful dent in the remaining contract payout owed and deferred money thereafter? It just seems that putting out a diseased (metaphorically)and weakened line-up featuring Davis beyond this year would just be a drag on ballpark & merch revenue. Letting him go / releasing him in ‘19 would seem a positive silver lining if there would be revenue improvement. He sure isn’t drawing anyone to the park now. 

My belief is yes to a measurable extent.  I don't know how big though.  I think the best argument would be pointing to the revenue difference between winning franchises and losing ones and let common sense take it from there.

Personally I'm more concerned about the need for a new GM and manager and how an unresolved Chris Davis situation will impact the ability to hire people worth having.