What a relief. O's no longer worse team in baseball!

[gtman55]

9 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

After watching this team all year, it's hard to believe there's a team out there actually worse than us.  Jeez.

Well we're back to being the worst.

[gtman55]

11 hours ago, foxfield said:

 

Angelos has most certainly made mistakes and I can personally be counted in the "I hope the next owner is sooner than later" camp even with the realization that a new owner would not in any way mean a better owner.

But Peter Angelos will have no delusion that the current team can make the playoffs.  The Orioles have 86 games left and if 86 wins was the magic number the Orioles would have to go 63-23, or play .732 baseball the rest of the way.  Unfortunately, if that is not daunting enough, the number this year is likely to be closer to 92 or maybe even higher.  That would require 69 wins or .802 baseball.  The Orioles are not mathematically removed from the equation but there is no realistic chance and Peter Angelos is many things, but he will not be making trades to make the playoffs this season.

Right?

 

OK, but having said that, why haven't we made moves to start the rebuild? My understanding is that the longer we hold on to players like Machado and the closer it gets to the deadline, the less we get for a rental. It seems to me the Orioles play their cards wrong all the time. You gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold ’em. We should've folded a while back.

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, gtman55 said:

Well we're back to being the worst.

No, KC is a half-game worse.   

[Aglets]

People always used to complain about the O's never playing meaningful baseball in September................

Guess who we're playing for a 3 game set from Aug 31 - Sep 2 ?     

And you thought there'd be no reason to watch.................

 

[Orsulak4Prez]

21 hours ago, weams said:

I think you could say that of 30 teams. Even if you pick the right one. And pay the right one. He might not be the right one. 

Exactly. That's one of the main reasons why I always root for the O's to win. You play the game to win. That being said, I support trading vets and playing as many youngsters as possible as long as they aren't brought up too soon, but I never want us to lose for the sake of a marginally higher pick, especially since it looks like we'll have a high pick no matter what.

[TouchemAll]

On 6/24/2018 at 7:32 AM, gtman55 said:

It's baby steps but we have been playing better of late. And it's nice to see we're at least a fraction better than KC. Go O's. 

Give it a day or two they seem to be able to find new lows this year.

[jtschrei]

The O's should be tanking. They should have already traded Machado, Britton, O'Day, Brach, Jones for prospects. It's frustrating. 

[JR Oriole]

I feel like at this point, I have no reason to believe the FO will do anything.  They are Peter and Samir driving in their cars in the beginning of Office Space while the man with the walker (representing all other major league teams) easily outpaces them down the street.  And I don't have faith that we could get the No. 1 draft pick and actually develop him....or that we won't pick a Hobgood with whatever pick we do have.  So at this point, I just pull for us to win every game because winning is much more fun than losing and neither outcome will change the speed, momentum, or movement of the FO. 

[SteveA]

48 minutes ago, JR Oriole said:

I feel like at this point, I have no reason to believe the FO will do anything.  They are Peter and Samir driving in their cars in the beginning of Office Space while the man with the walker (representing all other major league teams) easily outpaces them down the street.  And I don't have faith that we could get the No. 1 draft pick and actually develop him....or that we won't pick a Hobgood with whatever pick we do have.  So at this point, I just pull for us to win every game because winning is much more fun than losing and neither outcome will change the speed, momentum, or movement of the FO. 

So will we get to see Buck take a bat to a printer and smash it into smithereens before the end of the season?

Or Dan Duquette wandering around the warehouse looking for his stapler?

[gtman55]

It is amazing how clueless this front office seems to be. Any other team would probably have some sort of roadmap for a rebuild. The trades should have already started to happen. Is it remotely possible Angelos thinks we can turn it around?

[Tx Oriole]

7 hours ago, gtman55 said:

OK, but having said that, why haven't we made moves to start the rebuild? My understanding is that the longer we hold on to players like Machado and the closer it gets to the deadline, the less we get for a rental. It seems to me the Orioles play their cards wrong all the time. You gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold ’em. We should've folded a while back.

I agree with you.

[JR Oriole]

I have always wondered whether owners, front office executives, and even managers truly understand or appreciate how much of our hearts we put into following our sports teams.  Or if they did understand and appreciate it, do they really care?  The Orioles are a product and right now the product is bad....with no clear plan for making it better.  Most products or companies for that matter cannot survive bad marketing, a poor deliverable, and a completely uncertain future....not when there are always so many substitutes available.  But sports are different, and our hearts cause us to be loyal when it would probably be in our best interests not to be....there is nothing this team can do short of leaving Baltimore that will cause us to abandon this product.  It is bad enough that nobody in charge of anything within the current Orioles organization has delivered the ultimate prize to this fanbase....or even a pennant.  But the pace at which they move and their innate ability to create a feeling of complete hopelessness in their fanbase that few can rival is truly the kick in the junk.  And because we won't leave this team, and we are fully invested, they know they can do whatever they want (which in their case, is always nothing) and we will keep coming back and hoping things will be different someday.  Until then, there seems to be no value in losing....and I don't like rooting for any of my teams to lose, least of all my favorite one.  So each night, I am pulling for us to win. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, JR Oriole said:

I have always wondered whether owners, front office executives, and even managers truly understand or appreciate how much of our hearts we put into following our sports teams.  Or if they did understand and appreciate it, do they really care?  The Orioles are a product and right now the product is bad....with no clear plan for making it better.  Most products or companies for that matter cannot survive bad marketing, a poor deliverable, and a completely uncertain future....not when there are always so many substitutes available.  But sports are different, and our hearts cause us to be loyal when it would probably be in our best interests not to be....there is nothing this team can do short of leaving Baltimore that will cause us to abandon this product.  It is bad enough that nobody in charge of anything within the current Orioles organization has delivered the ultimate prize to this fanbase....or even a pennant.  But the pace at which they move and their innate ability to create a feeling of complete hopelessness in their fanbase that few can rival is truly the kick in the junk.  And because we won't leave this team, and we are fully invested, they know they can do whatever they want (which in their case, is always nothing) and we will keep coming back and hoping things will be different someday.  Until then, there seems to be no value in losing....and I don't like rooting for any of my teams to lose, least of all my favorite one.  So each night, I am pulling for us to win. 

I don't want them making decisions on what they think the emotional needs of the fanbase are.  That's how you get Davis back.  That type of behavior would lead to them bringing Jones back.

[SteveA]

2 minutes ago, JR Oriole said:

I have always wondered whether owners, front office executives, and even managers truly understand or appreciate how much of our hearts we put into following our sports teams.  Or if they did understand and appreciate it, do they really care?  The Orioles are a product and right now the product is bad....with no clear plan for making it better.  Most products or companies for that matter cannot survive bad marketing, a poor deliverable, and a completely uncertain future....not when there are always so many substitutes available.  But sports are different, and our hearts cause us to be loyal when it would probably be in our best interests not to be....there is nothing this team can do short of leaving Baltimore that will cause us to abandon this product.  It is bad enough that nobody in charge of anything within the current Orioles organization has delivered the ultimate prize to this fanbase....or even a pennant.  But the pace at which they move and their innate ability to create a feeling of complete hopelessness in their fanbase that few can rival is truly the kick in the junk.  And because we won't leave this team, and we are fully invested, they know they can do whatever they want (which in their case, is always nothing) and we will keep coming back and hoping things will be different someday.  Until then, there seems to be no value in losing....and I don't like rooting for any of my teams to lose, least of all my favorite one.  So each night, I am pulling for us to win. 

I think what is hard for us on here to realize is that we knowledgable fans are a small percentage of the fanbase that shows up at the ballpark.   Maybe 25%?   There are families who go to 4 or five games a year, people that go with groups like their Cub Scout troop, fans of other teams, people that go to a ballgame on a date, etc.   And lots of those people are probably only vaguely aware of the fact that Manny is a free agent after this year.   So instead of desparately wanting the team to deal Manny ASAP even though he is a great fun player to watch, they will wake up the day he is dealt and say what the heck happened?   He was my favorite player!   That sucks.

We're in our little echo chamber here.   We all KNOW Adam's defense in CF has declined.   We know the contract situation means Manny must be traded.   In the middle of December we are projecting who the team might sign or trade for.   There are thousands of fans who enjoy Orioles baseball who show up at the ballpark in April or start watching on TV in April and say, I wonder if we have anyone new to root for this year?   And they get to know the new players and miss the old ones that were their favorites, without understanding how the Rule 5 draft works, how many years of pre-arb a player has, or what WAR means.

And THOSE FANS are the majority, not us.   So when we sit here wondering why Angelos isn't listening to the fans, why our concerns about the team having no clear plan for the future, and so forth... remember that the majority of the people that go to the games don't get that deeply involved.   They don't try to think like an owner/GM and follow the process of building the team on a daily basis.   They go to be entertained, they develop attachments to players.   Sure, they want to see a winner.   But they haven't the time nor the interest to get a PhD in baseball team building to be able to understand why the lack of international signings puts us behind other teams, or whether we should have taken Grenier with our second pick.

If Angelos DID conduct any market research or fan survey and asked fans at the ballpark whether Manny should be dealt... the majority would probably say of course not.   I love watching him play.

I'm sure there is a "feeling of complete hopelessness in the fanbase" this year.   But most of it is due to the losing record, not due to a thorough analysis and understanding of the dysfunctional management structure of the team, the talent in the farm system, the team's use or non-use of analytics, and the potential loss of revenue from MASN once the lawsuit is settled.  

[JR Oriole]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't want them making decisions on what they think the emotional needs of the fanbase are.  That's how you get Davis back.  That type of behavior would lead to them bringing Jones back.

We know they 1. don't make decisions based on emotions, because if they did Markakis would still be here and 2. don't actually make ANY decisions.  So I don't think you need to worry about that.  At all. 

I live in Atlanta and I was there Friday night.  I actually think Nick may still be hitting doubles against us as we speak....even though we are back in Baltimore.   And even though he was apparently washed up four years ago.