Chris Bosio

[Malike]

6 hours ago, esmd said:

Bosio is full of crap. His story is so stupid it doesn't make sense.  What's almost worse than calling the kid what he did, is him making up this ridiculous BS story - he's clearly lying and trying to deflect this on to the Tigers and the poor kid.  That's shows a serious lack of character, to say the least.  He'll never work in MLB or the affiliated minor leagues again, IMO.  Maybe independent league, semi-pro, or overseas, if he wants/needs to coach that bad.

Let me tell you a story then and tell me if it makes sense. I have a son who has special needs, he is extremely hyper and is constantly climbing and jumping off all of the furniture in the house. I was talking to guys in my office about it and said the kid is like a freaking Monkey the way he climbs and jumps from everything. If someone walking by, overheard just the word Monkey, should I be disciplined or fired? 

[Luke-OH]

1 hour ago, Malike said:

Let me tell you a story then and tell me if it makes sense. I have a son who has special needs, he is extremely hyper and is constantly climbing and jumping off all of the furniture in the house. I was talking to guys in my office about it and said the kid is like a freaking Monkey the way he climbs and jumps from everything. If someone walking by, overheard just the word Monkey, should I be disciplined or fired? 

Of course not, but it doesn’t sound like that’s what was happening here.

[Dark Helmet]

4 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

Of course not, but it doesn’t sound like that’s what was happening here.

His point was...it doesn't matter the situation. If someone took it wrong...he would moat likely be disciplined and if enough uproar was made...terminated. You can't prove intent. 

[Luke-OH]

1 minute ago, Dark Helmet said:

His point was...it doesn't matter the situation. If someone took it wrong...he would moat likely be disciplined and if enough uproar was made...terminated. You can't prove intent. 

My point is only that the situation does matter, I'm no fan of outrage over something taken the wrong way or taking offense easily. Saying you can't prove intent is a pretty slippery slope, don't you think? Where is the line, is everything acceptable (not in private life, but in the workplace) since you can't prove it was done with ill intent. According to the article, multiple sources confirmed the context of the statement, and four sources refuted Bosio's side of the story. We haven't even heard his players come to his defense, the only person in the organization who is defending him publicly or anonymously appears to be himself.

[Dark Helmet]

On 6/30/2018 at 9:58 AM, Luke-OH said:

My point is only that the situation does matter, I'm no fan of outrage over something taken the wrong way or taking offense easily. Saying you can't prove intent is a pretty slippery slope, don't you think? Where is the line, is everything acceptable (not in private life, but in the workplace) since you can't prove it was done with ill intent. According to the article, multiple sources confirmed the context of the statement, and four sources refuted Bosio's side of the story. We haven't even heard his players come to his defense, the only person in the organization who is defending him publicly or anonymously appears to be himself.

I'm not saying Bosio wasn't wrong. But for every Bosio, there are many people losing their jobs over BS allegations. I am biased though. I used to work in an environment where accusations like this were rampant. 

[Luke-OH]

9 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

I'm not saying Bosio wasn't wrong. But for every Bosio, there are many people losing their jobs over BS allegations. I am biased though. I used to work in an environment where accusations like this were rampant. 

That's a shame, false accusations are so toxic because not only do they hurt the accused, they also hurt the people who are actually being abused or discriminated, who lose some amount of credibility if they ever chose to come forward.

[esmd]

On 6/30/2018 at 3:48 AM, Malike said:

Let me tell you a story then and tell me if it makes sense. I have a son who has special needs, he is extremely hyper and is constantly climbing and jumping off all of the furniture in the house. I was talking to guys in my office about it and said the kid is like a freaking Monkey the way he climbs and jumps from everything. If someone walking by, overheard just the word Monkey, should I be disciplined or fired? 

In your scenario, no of course not.  But if your buying Bosio's story, I don't know what to tell you.  The player says they don't call him that nickname.  Four separate teams sources said Bosio called the kid a monkey.  I don't believe Bosio's BS story.  He got what he deserved, IMO.

[Dark Helmet]

53 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

That's a shame, false accusations are so toxic because not only do they hurt the accused, they also hurt the people who are actually being abused or discriminated, who lose some amount of credibility if they ever chose to come forward.

Yes it is. My thing is though...where does it end? Will calling someone a POS be considered racist because it is Brown? Not making light of the situation either. But, who gets to decide what's an offense remark? In this day and age, anyone can take anything the wrong way.

[LookitsPuck]

On 7/1/2018 at 10:49 AM, Dark Helmet said:

Yes it is. My thing is though...where does it end? Will calling someone a POS be considered racist because it is Brown? Not making light of the situation either. But, who gets to decide what's an offense remark? In this day and age, anyone can take anything the wrong way.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some sort of civility in the workplace. And if that means getting rid of all the "non-PC" (see: racist, bigoted) statements of the past? Great! And if that means people walking on eggshells in the interim...well I'd much rather people think of what they're saying instead of being a drunk uncle at a 4th of July party.

[ScGO's]

"Racism" is a strange word.  The "-ism" suffix refers to a "system" such as capitalism, communism, fascism, etc.  A system set up on a belief of how society should be run.  I truly believe that as a society, we need to think about the word "racist" compared to the word "ignorant."  

I live in western NC, and I hear ridiculous things come out of the locals mouths all the time, but I'm still reluctant to call these folks racist, as I believe most of them don't have it in their hearts to truly create a system of racial hierarchy and the desire to round up people of color and suppress them.  A belief in White supremacy is "racism," but the local yokel running his uneducated mouth to get laughs from his buddies doesn't scare me as much as the people who run and have ran deep state programs that target races, ex: Tuskegee Experiment or the Pruitt-Igoe housing projects.  The people who ran those programs were educated, powerful, and knew exactly what they were doing. 

Most of what we witness is generational rollover that probably relates more to their innate "tribal" nature that ALL people have subconsciously (tribal doesn't necessarily refer to just race, it could be anything from Emo kids to Soccer moms; its identity) combined with their lack of education.   

I believe that those who do promote Racism depend on the ignorance of the common folk to help implement their system, but in the case of Bosio, I wish things could be handled differently.  I hate punishing people for ignorance before we try to amend it.  Like I said, my neighbors say offensive things at times, but on the whole, I'm not going to call them terrible people, just misguided in that aspect. 

If Bosio did say this, then the offended person should be a man and confront his ass directly, leaving the bosses, co-workers, and media out of it (at first anyway).  Call him out, confidently and directly, man to man.  See how he responds.  Ask him, "Is this how you really feel? This is how you want to be perceived by others?"  It might lead to two outcomes, 1) Its an educational moment for Bosio and he may become a better person and work towards educating himself, or 2) if he responds apathetically, then get management involved and give him an opportunity to right the wrong, and he chooses not to, then let him go because he will obviously be an employee that damages the moral of the organization. 

In scenario 1, it never reaches the media and doesn't feed the already fomented and reactionary environment we currently live in.  In scenario 2, the Tigers can release him and appear much more thoughtful and thorough in their decision making.

The above scenarios depend on the actions and choices of the individual offended though and not a policy.  A zero tolerance policy only leaves people bitter, angry, and less likely to change.  As a school teacher, I've seen zero tolerance policies attribute to ruining children's lives as those implementing these policies vicariously teach children that forgiveness is not an option.

Overall, I'd rather fight to help ignorant folks see things differently than to keep isolating them for a mistake they made that probably has a lot to do with upbringing, environment, and lack of worldly education.  

If anything those vanquished by a zero tolerance policy are probably more likely to actually subscribe to a belief in Racism.  I'll boldly claim that PC policies and zero tolerance result in more Racism.

[LookitsPuck]

And I'd say not having zero tolerance policies (or just heavy handed policies in general) leads to abusers getting away with things. It's systemic and cyclical. We either hold these people accountable or the privileged folks will continue to run rampant without repercussion.

The problem with racists like Bosio is that by having a lenient policy like you're suggesting...that's preventing other, more upstanding people from having that position. So instead of holding him accountable, you want a sensitivity training for him thinking he'll change his mind?

The thing is...Chris Bosio is a 55 year old man. We're not talking about somebody in their teens or 20s. This guy isn't going to change. So get him out and get fresh blood in there that isn't going to a clubhouse cancer. Teams are more than an individual and if this guy doesn't have players supporting his lying ways, he's lying to management and has a history of this kind of behavior...why on Earth should he get the time of day here?

[ScGO's]

1 hour ago, LookitsPuck said:

The problem with racists like Bosio is that by having a lenient policy like you're suggesting...

Obviously we have  different definitions of racist.  I don't think Bosio is sitting down after a long day of baseball to scribe notes on genocidal doctrine or read the musings of Rosenburg, Sanger, or Thomas Cobb.

I didn't advocate any policy in my post, just how PEOPLE can handle things differently so Systems don't have to determine outcomes for us.  I ain't advocating for Bosio, I'm simply saying that 1) don't expect people to change for the better in the current system and 2) let's hold off on any judgement of others as I'm sure I can take several moments from all our lives out of context (or in) and frame us to be a totally awful human being when that is probably not the case.  Systems, rules, and policies don't make people better.  People trying to effectively communicate with other people while still treating them human makes them better.

My original post stemmed from an incident I witnessed at an O's game about 5 years ago.  It was an opposing fan; a large group of us were cheering for the O's and some dude turned around and said something arrogant about the O's sucking or something, so some friendly jawwing followed when all of a sudden dude dropped a big ol N-bomb on my buddy.  Some of us (the white guys) started to approach the guy, but my buddy was like nah, I got this and tried to talk to the guy about what he said calmly and respectably. But the guy was not hearing it, so my buddy just walked away.  A few of the guys wanted to confront and fight this guy, but my buddy (who is black) just said, nah, that will just make him hate us more.  By handling the situation humanely, he hoped that it would make the guy think, especially as the offender sat there quietly the rest of the game looking like a fool.

 

Or off with his head...

 

[SteveA]

On 6/29/2018 at 10:22 PM, OFFNY said:

o

 

The photo had to be taken in 1980, because Ryan was still with the Angels in 1979 (Super 70's Sports.)

 

o

I follow Super 70s Sports on Twitter.  They are hilarious but occasionally they betray their name and bleed into the 80s a bit.

[OFFNY]

On 6/29/2018 at 10:22 PM, OFFNY said:

o

 

The photo had to be taken in 1980, because Ryan was still with the Angels in 1979 (Super 70's Sports.)

 

o

 

 

On 7/3/2018 at 4:19 PM, SteveA said:

 

I follow Super 70's Sports on Twitter. They are hilarious, but occasionally they betray their name and bleed into the 80's a bit.

 

o

 

Whenever I took history courses in college, it always started out at least 20-30 years prior to the beginning of the defined course, and ended at least 20 or 30 years after it's defined ending (with the exception of the 20th Century, which we are not even 20 years removed from yet.)

 

For example, 20th Century American History started with touching on the Civil War and the ensuing 1870's, 1880's, and 1890's before going into the 1900's and onward.

The reason being is that history's decades and centuries blend with each other (as opposed to everybody saying "STOP !!! We are in a new century/decade now, so we must divorce ourselves completely from the previous one(s), and then make another abrupt halt on December 31st at the chronological end of the next decade/century."

 

So in a historical sense, it is quite appropriate for Super 70's Sports to occasionally dabble into the late 60's and the early 80's.

 

o

[Dark Helmet]

On 7/3/2018 at 10:27 AM, LookitsPuck said:

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some sort of civility in the workplace. And if that means getting rid of all the "non-PC" (see: racist, bigoted) statements of the past? Great! And if that means people walking on eggshells in the interim...well I'd much rather people think of what they're saying instead of being a drunk uncle at a 4th of July party.

Or don't be so sensitive.  How about we just use sign language? I'm not about racism, but you have to draw a line. It's not only words people are complaining about also. Maybe we should live in bubbles where we can turn the sound on and off?