Duquette: "Extensive Conversations a Couple Years Ago" with Manny

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

The only reason this is true is because Trout is now in his first free agent season, so he’s making twice what Manny ever made.    But if you want to make an apples to apples comparison, you should exclude this year for Trout.

Trout: 54.2 rWAR for $43 mm = $790 k per 1 WAR

Manny: 29.6 rWAR for $26 mm = $880,000 per 1 WAR.

Note I did not count the $8 mm Manny will make in the 2nd half of this season, which undoubtedly will make his $ per WAR number go up.

By the way, the numbers tntoriole supplied counted Trout’s and Manny’s entire 2018 salaries, but the season is only half over.

Actually ...lets throw out both of their half seasons in 2018 along with the associated dollars paid thus far in 2018

Trout prior to 2018  as you said had 

43 million for 54.2 WAR  =$ 790,000 per 1 WAR

Manny prior to 2018 had 

$ 18,062,000 for 28 WAR= $ 645,071   per 1WAR

 

[Frobby]

28 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Actually ...lets throw out both of their half seasons in 2018 along with the associated dollars paid thus far in 2018

Trout prior to 2018  as you said had 

43 million for 54.2 WAR  =$ 790,000 per 1 WAR

Manny prior to 2018 had 

$ 18,062,000 for 28 WAR= $ 645,071   per 1WAR

 

Still not the right comparison.   Manny’s 2018 (last year before free agency) is equivalent to Trout’s 2017.    Trout’s been playing a year longer and this is a year further up the salary curve, and you can’t ignore that.    The comparison I did was the right one IMO.   

[webbrick2010]

Manny playing SS poorly sure has muddied the waters as to what he is worth

His defensive numbers at 3B had also been in decline

The team signing him now has to consider that he is a below average SS and perhaps only a league average or slightly above average 3B.

Then throw in that he is a way below average base runner with a history of not hustling....

I think Manny and all of baseball will be surprised at how low his offers will be

[ChuckS]

H

46 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Manny playing SS poorly sure has muddied the waters as to what he is worth

His defensive numbers at 3B had also been in decline

The team signing him now has to consider that he is a below average SS and perhaps only a league average or slightly above average 3B.

Then throw in that he is a way below average base runner with a history of not hustling....

I think Manny and all of baseball will be surprised at how low his offers will be

Yep. Maybe he only gets 200 mil. 

[Mondo Trasho]

So they had "extensive conversations", when exactly? At the end of 2016? What were the results of said conversations?

Unless Manny and his camp were being deceitful, the O's had to have known the lay of the land. If they knew he wasn't going to sign here, or at the very least, not for the money they would offer, then they needed to start making preparations to deal him. The failure to do so is why they're in this situation with Machado right now. And it appears we're going down the same road with Schoop.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, webbrick2010 said:

Manny playing SS poorly sure has muddied the waters as to what he is worth

His defensive numbers at 3B had also been in decline

The team signing him now has to consider that he is a below average SS and perhaps only a league average or slightly above average 3B.

Then throw in that he is a way below average base runner with a history of not hustling....

I think Manny and all of baseball will be surprised at how low his offers will be

I don’t.    He’s one of the best players in baseball and among the youngest to hit free agency.     The offers will be very high.

That said, I think his market value would have been higher if he’d stuck to 3B and let it be a mystery how he’d do as a starting SS.     Most would have guessed that he’d be much better there than he has been.

[Dipper9]

On 7/1/2018 at 7:44 AM, Justinlstn said:

My issue is if you tried a couple years ago an couldn't get it done then why not start looking to move him back then? Be proactive. Do nothing approach seems to be working great.

Not to make excuses for the Orioles, but they were contenders a couple of years ago.  When he should have seriously been traded is last year's trade deadline.  

[Barnaby Graves]

19 hours ago, Malike said:

Worst part is, all of my Yankee fan friends who have been getting my Jeter was a horrible shortstop for over a decade from me happen to be throwing it back in my face right now and they aren't wrong. Ugh.

At least we are capable of admitting it.  I could rarely find a Yankee fan who could.

[Beef Supreme]

On 7/1/2018 at 3:38 PM, tntoriole said:

oops....upside down math...thanks for the correction. 

Ah, yes, I do that sometimes, too.

[TonySoprano]

It seems we have a different story from Manny on this
 

Quote

The story was retold of how the Orioles expressed interest in signing Machado to a long-term extension and failed to follow through with it.

“They tried to lock me in my first year,” he said. “It fell through. They waited until the offseason, we were going to be talking in the offseason, and after that they’ve been saying they wanted to reach out, but we’re still waiting for that phone call.

“I think it was because of my (knee) injury. It was right after my first injury. We were listening. It was almost done. There was almost a deal done and both of us didn’t come to terms and we said we’d talk about it again in the offseason and then a couple years later they came back again and said they were going to make a phone call to us, and like I said we’re still waiting to hear that phone call.”

Roch - http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2018/07/machado-fields-questions-before-ground-balls-at-all-star-game.html

 

[MagicBird]

7 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

It seems we have a different story from Manny on this
 

Roch - http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2018/07/machado-fields-questions-before-ground-balls-at-all-star-game.html

 

If this is true the Orioles deserve to be in this situation.  Its sad.

[Hallas]

5 minutes ago, MagicBird said:

If this is true the Orioles deserve to be in this situation.  Its sad.

I don't think this is fair.  He had major knee surgery in 2013, and major knee surgery in 2014, and the O's are known to be conservative with their medical evaluations.  While being overly cautious may have hurt the Orioles, would you feel the same way if Machado hurt his knee a 3rd time in 2016 after signing a deal through 2020, and he was forced to move to 1B/DH?

[Ripken]

They could always sign him in the off season...

[atomic]

50 minutes ago, Hallas said:

I don't think this is fair.  He had major knee surgery in 2013, and major knee surgery in 2014, and the O's are known to be conservative with their medical evaluations.  While being overly cautious may have hurt the Orioles, would you feel the same way if Machado hurt his knee a 3rd time in 2016 after signing a deal through 2020, and he was forced to move to 1B/DH?

I always said that Angelo's would never agree to long term contract with Manny because of his bad knees.   Evidently Chris David's knees are rock solid. 

[Frobby]

28 minutes ago, atomic said:

I always said that Angelo's would never agree to long term contract with Manny because of his bad knees.   Evidently Chris David's knees are rock solid. 

I think I’m going to be sick.