Orioles Deal Gausman/O'Day to Braves - Schoop to Brewers

[Thato'sfan]

Just now, Finisher said:

35BB/86Ks in 63 innings this year looks pretty legit to me.

a couple of years ago he was arguably the best pitching prospect. The stuff and velo is certainly there.

[Ruzious]

Some of us mentioned we didn't see the fit for Milwaukee with Schoop.  They've been switching him between 2nd and short, and he made an error at both positions last night and has 4 in his 7 games there.  SmallSampleSizeTheater but not surprising.  Others also pointed out that his hot streak here involved zero walks, and once he cools off, it'll be brutal if he doesn't start being at least a bit selective - which he likely won't do because he's likely thinking he can hit anything.  Voila to that, as well.  I still think he's a quality player, but I don't see what Milwaukee was thinking.  

In theater of the absurd - Gausman gets a pinch-hitting assignment last night and doesn't pitch - and he got hit by a pitch in a 7 pitch at bat.  .

[DirtyBird]

3 minutes ago, Finisher said:

35BB/86Ks in 63 innings this year looks pretty legit to me.

That's a 13% BB rate. That's well beyond awful according to fangraphs.

[Thato'sfan]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

That's a 13% BB rate. That's well beyond awful according to fangraphs.

He is 24. He is 6'8". Sometimes taller guys take a long time to figure out their mechanics and command. He certainly has the stuff to succeed. A high risk project with extremely high reward. If he can't smooth the inconsistencies in his command, he might be relegated to the bullpen.

[Luke-OH]

On 10/20/2017 at 4:21 PM, Luke-OH said:

There is a big difference between a 12.1% K-BB% from an ok prospect in his age 25 season and a 29.7% K-BB% from a top 25 prospect in his age 23 season.

You can save this and say "I told you so" but I'll say it, Glasnow will have the better career (barring injury) than Keller.

So ends my Glasnow talk for the day.

I've long been a believer in Glasnow, I think he's going to be a really good MLB pitcher. 

6 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

That's a 13% BB rate. That's well beyond awful according to fangraphs.

Differential between K% and BB% is more important than either as a separate stat. 

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/strikeout_walks_ratio_or_differential/

Glasnow is 48th of 215 pitchers with 50+ IP in differential. 

[wildbillhiccup]

40 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

I've long been a believer in Glasnow, I think he's going to be a really good MLB pitcher. 

Differential between K% and BB% is more important than either as a separate stat. 

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/strikeout_walks_ratio_or_differential/

Glasnow is 48th of 215 pitchers with 50+ IP in differential. 

I concur and it goes back to my point about thinking trading Gausman to the Pirates with either Meadows or Glasnow would have been a better move for us. And I'm still not convinced we couldn't have gotten both if we included a bullpen arm. Gausman + Brach is probably close in value to Archer on his own. 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I concur and it goes back to my point about thinking trading Gausman to the Pirates with either Meadows or Glasnow would have been a better move for us. And I'm still not convinced we couldn't have gotten both if we included a bullpen arm. Gausman + Brach is probably close in value to Archer on his own. 

Even if you consider Gausman and Archer to be roughly equal pitchers, the extra year of control for Archer is worth more than two months of Brach.    And honestly I think Archer has a pretty clear edge on Gausman in terms of track record.   

[wildbillhiccup]

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Even if you consider Gausman and Archer to be roughly equal pitchers, the extra year of control for Archer is worth more than two months of Brach.    And honestly I think Archer has a pretty clear edge on Gausman in terms of track record.   

Fair enough and I agree with you on Archer having a slightly better track record. So we could have landed Glasnow OR Meadows + lower level prospects. Still a much better deal then we made with Atlanta IMO. And the Pirates were definitely interested in Gausman. 

[ArtVanDelay]

9 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Fair enough and I agree with you on Archer having a slightly better track record.

I'd say Archer's track record is significantly better than Gausman's.

[wildbillhiccup]

53 minutes ago, ArtVanDelay said:

I'd say Archer's track record is significantly better than Gausman's.

It still doesn't negate my point. a conservation estimate (which I don't believe) is that Gausman was at least worst half as much as Archer. So he should have netted us Glasnow or Meadows + lower level prospects on his own. And if we're looking at everything (track record, years of control, etc.) you can't overlook the fact that Gausman is younger than Archer. 

[Frobby]

Just now, wildbillhiccup said:

It still doesn't negate my point. a conservation estimate (which I don't believe) is that Gausman was at least worst half as much as Archer. So he should have netted us Glasnow or Meadows + lower level prospects on his own. And if we're looking at everything (track record, years of control, etc.) you can't overlook the fact that Gausman is younger than Archer. 

I agree Gausman’s age works in his favor, plus the lower mileage on his arm (about 300 fewer major league innings, and 400 fewer pre-MLB innings including MiL and college).     I’m not sure there’s a simple formula that says if a good pitcher nets two top prospects then a pitcher half that good should net one top prospect.    At the end of the day, we don’t know how far the O’s got in talks with Pittsburgh and what the offers were, so it’s hard to say if we could have done better with Pittsburgh than Atlanta.    

[Going Underground]

Schoop has not exactly done much for the Brewers yet..154 average and finally walked after some 30 games or so.Only 12 games so far and he did not even start two of them.0 Homer's and 1 double and two RBI'S and 16 strikeouts Very early and be interesting how the rest of his season plays out.

Manny has also not been great. Walks and average are pretty good but only 2 homers and five RBI'S. Also 29 K's in 23 games.Agsin very early.

[NCRaven]

Given the extra year of control, Villar for Schoop even up isn't looking like a bad deal for the Orioles.  The additions of Carmona and Ortiz have the potential for making this deal real win.

[capyy]

Schoop not starting regularly now. PHing. 

[Morgan423]

3 minutes ago, capyy said:

Schoop not starting regularly now. PHing. 

Milwaukee partially receiving some of that Geraldo Parra karma back.