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Schoop, Service Time, and a Lesson on our Young Guys

BohKnowsBmore

By BohKnowsBmore
in Orioles Talk

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, WI O’s Fan said:

What about signing him as a 3rd baseman?  He certainly has the arm and his range issue will be reduced.  He hit 32 hrs in 2017.   Seems like a good fit.   Keep Villar 2nd and find a good/ great fielding SS.

Pick him up for the whole 11 million or wait and see if he makes  it free agency.?Two or three million for a year? 

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Sign him as cheap as possible on a one year deal. If he gets it together trade him at the deadline again.

I think Schoop will get more than a one year deal if he becomes a free agent. I mean even Yondor frickin' Alonzo got a two year contract last off season. 

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, WI O’s Fan said:

What about signing him as a 3rd baseman?  He certainly has the arm and his range issue will be reduced.  He hit 32 hrs in 2017.   Seems like a good fit.   Keep Villar 2nd and find a good/ great fielding SS.

I like the idea of putting Schoop at 3B. Only on a 1 or 2 year deal though (if he hits free agency). I'd also be fine just picking up the remainder of his contract.

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Chromehill Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Chromehill

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, OrioleDog said:

Dave Schoenfield made him #23 in next year's FA rankings, which sort of implies there's only about 20 guys teams care about becoming free agents.

I remember reading one aspect of Marvin Miller's genius was limiting free agency back in the 70's, and that Charlie Finley wanted to go whole hog, and said something like "Heck, make them all free agents".

This feels like inching towards Finley's view.

I'm trying to recollect if there's ever been a higher profile non-tender - it certainly will be another pain point for the next CBA.

The owners should have listened to Finley back in the 70's.  Even today, the owners should propose mass free agency.  What can the players do, refuse more freedom?  Of course they could, but that would be bad PR for them.

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Chromehill Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Chromehill

Posted
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8 hours ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

I'm not too keen on picking up Schoop. Nothing against him, but I would rather see what Nunez can do at 3rd over a whole season, with either Villsr at short and Valera/Wilkerson at second, or Villar at second and a free agent/Rule 5 at short with Wilkerson as a super utility.

I agree, Schoop is the old Orioles.  A homer hitting free swinger who does not walk and strikes out a lot and lacks speed.  His defense will decline as he gets older too.  Pass on Schoop.

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CallMeBrooksie Major Leaguer

CallMeBrooksie

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10 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

 I'd also be fine just picking up the remainder of his contract.

I'd be so upset if the current management did this. Would be such a huge letdown after all of the talk and hype of Elias and Sig. Flies 100% in the face of what a rebuilding team should be doing.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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32 minutes ago, Chromehill said:

The owners should have listened to Finley back in the 70's.  Even today, the owners should propose mass free agency.  What can the players do, refuse more freedom?  Of course they could, but that would be bad PR for them.

Explain to me why this would be bad for players and good for owners?    

1st 3 years - players are ridiculously underpaid.

Next three years - most players continue to be vastly underpaid; for those who will make too much in arbitration, the team can escape that obligation by non-tendering them.

Sounds great for the owners if you ask me.    

Now, what Finley wanted was no multi-year contracts.   That would be good for owners, but kind of terrible for both players and fans.   Essentially, it would turn MLB into auction league fantasy baseball.   Maybe it would work with a strict spending cap, but otherwise the rich teams would dominate even more than they already do.

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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5 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

I'd be so upset if the current management did this. Would be such a huge letdown after all of the talk and hype of Elias and Sig. Flies 100% in the face of what a rebuilding team should be doing.

I don't see the problem. It would just be a one year rental until they actually had a legitimate prospect who was ready to play 3B. It would also give them a player the fans already know who they could market. Like it or not they still have to try and fill seats, even during the lean years. 

My big thing during the rebuild is: 

1) No long term deals (more than 2 years) to any free agents 

and

2) Don't sign a player that will block a prospect. 

I think if they stick to those two rules they'll be able to maintain roster flexibility, build their minor league system, and hopefully turn this thing around in 3-5 years. 

 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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Just now, wildbillhiccup said:

I don't see the problem. It would just be a one year rental until they actually had a legitimate prospect who was ready to play 3B. It would also give them a player the fans already know who they could market. Like it or not they still have to try and fill seats, even during the lean years. 

My big thing during the rebuild is: 

1) No long term deals (more than 2 years) to any free agents 

and

2) Don't sign a player that will block a prospect. 

I think if they stick to those two rules they'll be able to maintain roster flexibility, build their minor league system, and hopefully turn this thing around in 3-5 years. 

 

I think there is one other rule, and possibly two:

3.   Don’t spend significant money on players who aren’t likely to be part of your next contending team if that money can be better spent on other things now or later.

And arguably....

4.   Don’t acquire players who might move you down from no. 1-2 in the draft until you are ready to put a winning team on the field.   

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CallMeBrooksie Major Leaguer

CallMeBrooksie

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I don't see the problem. It would just be a one year rental until they actually had a legitimate prospect who was ready to play 3B. It would also give them a player the fans already know who they could market. Like it or not they still have to try and fill seats, even during the lean years. 

My big thing during the rebuild is: 

1) No long term deals (more than 2 years) to any free agents 

and

2) Don't sign a player that will block a prospect. 

I think if they stick to those two rules they'll be able to maintain roster flexibility, build their minor league system, and hopefully turn this thing around in 3-5 years. 

 

They don't have to try and fill seats by paying a so-so player $10 million (yes, he'll make close to $10 million next year in arbitration if you pick up his contract). They didn't in Houston, and they shouldn't  do so in Baltimore, either. If that means that the Yard is empty, then so be it.

$10 million to Schoop is potentially $10 million they don't have to pour into an already massively under-funded international scouting and development program. There is a ton of work and investment to do across the player development landscape. That's where the money needs to go.

Besides that, I just don't think Schoop is good. He's certainly nothing special. I don't see the upside other than tugging at the heart-strings of several of the fans here who fell in love with him.

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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21 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

They don't have to try and fill seats by paying a so-so player $10 million (yes, he'll make close to $10 million next year in arbitration if you pick up his contract). They didn't in Houston, and they shouldn't  do so in Baltimore, either. If that means that the Yard is empty, then so be it.

$10 million to Schoop is potentially $10 million they don't have to pour into an already massively under-funded international scouting and development program. There is a ton of work and investment to do across the player development landscape. That's where the money needs to go.

Besides that, I just don't think Schoop is good. He's certainly nothing special. I don't see the upside other than tugging at the heart-strings of several of the fans here who fell in love with him.

I didn't say that Schoop was a great player. I just said that he was a recognizable name the team could easily market. I also think he'd at least be an above average third baseman. 

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