Grade the Rebuild, Phase I

[atomic]

Also people keep criticizing the 2000 fire sale but if we get anyone as good as Melvin Mora I will be shocked.  

[weams]

Dillon Tate and Brett Cumberland looking good as a battery. 

[Santandah]

1 hour ago, weams said:

Dillon Tate and Brett Cumberland looking good as a battery. 

Sarcasm? Looking at the box score I see 5 ER for Tate and an 0-3 for Cumberland tonight. Or was this before the 5 ER in the sixth?

 

Either way -- tell us what you saw. GIVE US SOME HOPE!

[Thato'sfan]

50 minutes ago, Santandah said:

Sarcasm? Looking at the box score I see 5 ER for Tate and an 0-3 for Cumberland tonight. Or was this before the 5 ER in the sixth?

 

Either way -- tell us what you saw. GIVE US SOME HOPE!

It was before the sixth.

Tate blew up in the sixth. he actually looked pretty good through five consecutive shutout innings to open his night. He only walked one batter and 6 of nine of the hits given up came in a 5 run fifth. His box score lines haven't really been an accurate representation of how he has actually performed in his first two starts. IMO, this was actually an encouraging game as he showed the ability to work through lack of his best command/stuff and he found a lot of success. The problem was he struggled with command in the sixth and three of the hits given up were ground balls. I think this kid will be a starter and I like his odds of becoming a mid rotation starter. He might becoming as good as a #2. He just needs time to work on becoming comfortable with his mechanics, which have been adjusted a few times in his different organizations. Wouldn't be surprised to see this kid in the Baltimore rotation by June of next year. He seems close to some breakthroughs in his game. I've followed this kid since he was drafted and he has shown serious improvement each year. He has a great work ethic and he learns quickly from his mistakes. Very mature and knowledgeable about pitching. I was ecstatic when we got him.

Cumberland looked like a solid receiver. Seems to be pretty good at the basics of catching. He also took a walk which later led to a run. He has a fringe hit tool but a plus batting eye. Fringe arm strength but he is solid blocking/pop time/mechanics. Has 50-55 power tool. Long shot of becoming an OBP/Power first catcher with playable defense. My first impression is that he looks better defensively than Sisco but the poor hit tool causes his power to play down.

[Santandah]

6 minutes ago, Thato'sfan said:

It was before the sixth.

Tate blew up in the sixth. he actually looked pretty good through five consecutive shutout innings to open his night. He only walked one batter and 6 of nine of the hits given up came in a 5 run fifth. His box score lines haven't really been an accurate representation of how he has actually performed in his first two starts. IMO, this was actually an encouraging game as he showed the ability to work through lack of his best command/stuff and he found a lot of success. The problem was he struggled with command in the sixth and three of the hits given up were ground balls. I think this kid will be a starter and I like his odds of becoming a mid rotation starter. He might becoming as good as a #2. He just needs time to work on becoming comfortable with his mechanics, which have been adjusted a few times in his different organizations. Wouldn't be surprised to see this kid in the Baltimore rotation by June of next year. He seems close to some breakthroughs in his game. I've followed this kid since he was drafted and he has shown serious improvement each year. He has a great work ethic and he learns quickly from his mistakes. Very mature and knowledgeable about pitching. I was ecstatic when we got him.

Cumberland looked like a solid receiver. Seems to be pretty good at the basics of catching. He also took a walk which later led to a run. He has a fringe hit tool but a plus batting eye. Fringe arm strength but he is solid blocking/pop time/mechanics. Has 50-55 power tool. Long shot of becoming an OBP/Power first catcher with playable defense. My first impression is that he looks better defensively than Sisco but the poor hit tool causes his power to play down.

Interesting re. Cumberland, given that all the reports say he's a hit-first, no field kinda guy...

[Thato'sfan]

6 minutes ago, Santandah said:

Interesting re. Cumberland, given that all the reports say he's a hit-first, no field kinda guy...

He is a hit first guy, but that is because of his eye and power. He doesn’t have great bat speed. All in all, his swing might get exposed in AA. I actually like him as a hitter and he profiles as a hit first backup catcher. Haven’t seen too much defensively, but I think he will stick.

[Thato'sfan]

Just re watched Tate's outing. Payed a lot of attention to his mechanics. I might be completely wrong and perhaps it is placebo, but it seems as if his delivery can be a bit inconsistent. His arm slot and speed are fine, but it seems as if the movement of his limbs(drive, load, etc.) can speed up sometimes leading to reduced command. He did that on the three run home run pitch and some other pitches. The first rbi was on a seeing eye single, the first hit of the sixth was a weakly grounder that hugged the third base line. The second home run was a meatball fastball down the middle. Maybe @Legend_Of_Joey or @Luke-OH can share their thoughts on his mechanics, they seem clean but it does seem as if he speeds it up at times. His fastball was sitting 95-96 and the changeup was plus throughout the night. The slider was also a 60 at times, but he occasionally hung it. Anyways, I'm sure the O's are doing everything they need to help Tate limit some of his inconsistencies.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

11 minutes ago, Thato'sfan said:

Just re watched Tate's outing. Payed a lot of attention to his mechanics. I might be completely wrong and perhaps it is placebo, but it seems as if his delivery can be a bit inconsistent. His arm slot and speed are fine, but it seems as if the movement of his limbs(drive, load, etc.) can speed up sometimes leading to reduced command. He did that on the three run home run pitch and some other pitches. The first rbi was on a seeing eye single, the first hit of the sixth was a weakly grounder that hugged the third base line. The second home run was a meatball fastball down the middle. Maybe @Legend_Of_Joey or @Luke-OH can share their thoughts on his mechanics, they seem clean but it does seem as if he speeds it up at times. His fastball was sitting 95-96 and the changeup was plus throughout the night. The slider was also a 60 at times, but he occasionally hung it. Anyways, I'm sure the O's are doing everything they need to help Tate limit some of his inconsistencies.

When it comes to stuff like mechanics, @Luke-OH and @Tony-OH are the guys for it. No shame admitting they are vastly superior at that stuff.

[LookitsPuck]

International signings so far have been the typical quantity vs. quality. That could (should) change if they sign Mesa. But so far that grade is incomplete.

The return for Gausman stunk. Felt like Duquette (or whomever did it) rushed it unnecessarily. Quantity vs. quality trade.

The Schoop return was OK. But, once again, a quantity vs. quality trade.

The Machado trade was good, not great. Quantity vs. quality trade.

The Britton trade was good, not great. Quantity vs. quality trade.

When you trade Gausman, Schoop, Machado and Britton...you really should get quantity. But you'd think there'd be *1* trade where you get some top shelf prospects. The best player of the group is Yusniel Diaz. There are some other good pieces, but I'm just worried we basically traded everybody to save salary for next year and quantity as opposed to going for top tier quality.

I'd say it's a C/C+ so far. With the right international signings, I could bump that up to a B/B+.

[Thato'sfan]

10 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

International signings so far have been the typical quantity vs. quality. That could (should) change if they sign Mesa. But so far that grade is incomplete.

The return for Gausman stunk. Felt like Duquette (or whomever did it) rushed it unnecessarily. Quantity vs. quality trade.

The Schoop return was OK. But, once again, a quantity vs. quality trade.

The Machado trade was good, not great. Quantity vs. quality trade.

The Britton trade was good, not great. Quantity vs. quality trade.

When you trade Gausman, Schoop, Machado and Britton...you really should get quantity. But you'd think there'd be *1* trade where you get some top shelf prospects. The best player of the group is Yusniel Diaz. There are some other good pieces, but I'm just worried we basically traded everybody to save salary for next year and quantity as opposed to going for top tier quality.

I'd say it's a C/C+ so far. With the right international signings, I could bump that up to a B/B+.

There has been one announced signing. We don't know anything about these kids. Many are under-scouted. If we acquire Mesa, I put the signing period as a B and no one else. If we sign many more cheap guys and a Sandy Gaston like talent, it is an A+.

The return for Gausman didn't stink. People in the Braves organization were really high on Jean Carlos Encarnacion(ceiling of top 10 third baseman), we got catching depth for a system severely lacking in catchers, a crafty left with an above average sinker with a potential future in the bullpen, and a bullpen arm with some upside. We also got 2.5 million in int'l money if that allows us to get a Gaston-like talent, taht is extremely valuable; remember, we have many future solid big leaguers on the farm, but very few star upside players. Encarnacion/Gaston/Int'l players add to that. Teams now know, better than ever before,whether a guy has a good chance of becoming a star. The dumping of two high salaries is also very helpful. 

The Schoop return focused on upside. Ortiz has #2 ceiling, Carmona has 5 tools and a super high ceiling. Villar, if he returns to 2016 form, could bring back a haul.

The Machado and Britton trade addressed the extreme lack of depth in the upper minors. We got some high ceiling guys as Diaz could develop into an all star, Tate has #2 upside, Carroll could become a closer, Pop could become a closer.) I agree these two were good trades and the Orioles chose to address the lack of depth while targeting some upside that would immediately enter the upper minors.

Teams are really grasping onto their studs, name one trade in the past year and a half which involved a true elite prospect for guys like Schoop, Gausman, or Britton. We did really well considering the current state of the baseball industry.

I would give the rebuild a B+/A-

[weams]

8 hours ago, Thato'sfan said:

Just re watched Tate's outing. Payed a lot of attention to his mechanics. I might be completely wrong and perhaps it is placebo, but it seems as if his delivery can be a bit inconsistent. His arm slot and speed are fine, but it seems as if the movement of his limbs(drive, load, etc.) can speed up sometimes leading to reduced command. He did that on the three run home run pitch and some other pitches. The first rbi was on a seeing eye single, the first hit of the sixth was a weakly grounder that hugged the third base line. The second home run was a meatball fastball down the middle. Maybe @Legend_Of_Joey or @Luke-OH can share their thoughts on his mechanics, they seem clean but it does seem as if he speeds it up at times. His fastball was sitting 95-96 and the changeup was plus throughout the night. The slider was also a 60 at times, but he occasionally hung it. Anyways, I'm sure the O's are doing everything they need to help Tate limit some of his inconsistencies.

I think in his second outing after being disabled for a quad injury, he got tired. 

[brooksact]

I'm fine with what's been done considering when it was done.  We really should've made some of these trades a year or two ago but considering that we didn't, I'm happy with the returns.  I just hope that we really take a look at pitching development throughout the system during this rebuild--when's the last time we developed a truly dominant starting pitcher?  Bedard?  When next the Orioles play in the World Series it will be because of a lethal rotation and we won't get one by buying it.

[OriolesMagic83]

13 minutes ago, Cy Bundy said:

I wonder what package of the prospects we got would land Glasnow, if any. He looked absolutely unhittable most of the night. The Rays got a better pitcher than Archer & a top 40 prospect for Archer.

The O's need to sign Bundy to a long term extension and trade him when his value is peak.  Imagine how much value the O's could have got for Schoop and Gausman if they were signed to team friendly extensions.  The Rays reload their farm just about every year by trading veterans on team friendly extensions for a prospect haul.

[bobmc]

5 hours ago, Cy Bundy said:

While it would be devastating for my OH handle as well as my aging and weary heart, I agree. We won’t contend in the next 5 years without a miracle. Bundy is just about our only non-rp MLB asset that could conceivably be on a contender in Baltimore. 

The Baseball America article posted in the Diaz thread was not particularly uplifting to go along with his slow start in Bowie. It’s not out of the realm of possibilities that we fail to net a career WAR of 1 from all the bats we got. 

JCE dice, "Buenas dias, senor!"  

[Going Underground]

5 hours ago, Cy Bundy said:

While it would be devastating for my OH handle as well as my aging and weary heart, I agree. We won’t contend in the next 5 years without a miracle. Bundy is just about our only non-rp MLB asset that could conceivably be on a contender in Baltimore. 

The Baseball America article posted in the Diaz thread was not particularly uplifting to go along with his slow start in Bowie. It’s not out of the realm of possibilities that we fail to net a career WAR of 1 from all the bats we got. 

My scout friend thinks Diaz can be like Marcell Ozuna if all goes well.He thinks the Orioles got some decent bullpen late relievers in the trades.Villar will be serviceable and may be even better then that.He was never a big Schoop fan.Schoop made another error yesterday.Thinks playing him at SS is not a good plan.Also no walks in last 30 games