Jonathan Villar- Our new 2B?

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Ruzious said:

He's been like this throughout his career - and he also makes more than his share of mistakes when playing SS.  He's a risk-taker, but he also just makes foolish plays too often to play for a lot of teams.   

But it’s not really that often.   His SB% is high (78%) and his other outs on the bases (like being thrown out trying to take an extra base) are pretty normal.     So, the way I see it, even if some of his caught stealings or other outs on the bases are the result of poor judgment, the bottom line is that he adds more runs with his legs than he loses.    That’s how BB-ref and BP both see it.    

I can’t really comment on his mental mistakes at SS, because I haven’t seen a ton.    And in my opinion, he’s really a 2B who can play SS in a pinch, but is playing SS more often than he should because of Martin’s offensive shortcomings.  

[LTO's]

Any team that gave the O’s a C type prospect or a Cashner like return for Villar would’ve made out like bandits. Shout out to Elias for holding firm and not giving him away for nothing.  Hopefully the O’s pay him and try again to move him next year. It’s not even controversial to say he’s been a top 10 2^nd baseman this year.

[Oriole1940]

I like Villar a lot, but can he pitch good?

[Moose Milligan]

Villar is good.  And he'd be a good player on a team where he's not viewed as one of their best players.  Like if the Astros had an open 2nd base spot, Villar would be good for them.  

Unfortunately, the Orioles are filled with guys that would be good on better teams where their deficiencies are masked.  We've got a decent power guy like Renato Nunez with a .309 OBP.  That OBP would be alright if he was on a team surrounded by guys that got on base and he could jack one every so often.  Same with Hanser, he doesn't strike out but he doesn't walk, either.  

Villar gets on base at a decent enough, but not spectacular clip.  He's got some pop.  He can steal a base but also can run you right out of an inning by doing something incredibly boneheaded.  So while he's a good player and I'd like to keep him...dunno, it just doesn't make too much sense.  Then again, we don't have a 2B prospect knocking on the door.  

[bobmc]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Villar is good.  And he'd be a good player on a team where he's not viewed as one of their best players.  Like if the Astros had an open 2nd base spot, Villar would be good for them.  

Unfortunately, the Orioles are filled with guys that would be good on better teams where their deficiencies are masked.  We've got a decent power guy like Renato Nunez with a .309 OBP.  That OBP would be alright if he was on a team surrounded by guys that got on base and he could jack one every so often.  Same with Hanser, he doesn't strike out but he doesn't walk, either.  

Villar gets on base at a decent enough, but not spectacular clip.  He's got some pop.  He can steal a base but also can run you right out of an inning by doing something incredibly boneheaded.  So while he's a good player and I'd like to keep him...dunno, it just doesn't make too much sense.  Then again, we don't have a 2B prospect knocking on the door.  

Perhaps @Luke-OH can find us another Van Meter?

[Ruzious]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

But it’s not really that often.   His SB% is high (78%) and his other outs on the bases (like being thrown out trying to take an extra base) are pretty normal.     So, the way I see it, even if some of his caught stealings or other outs on the bases are the result of poor judgment, the bottom line is that he adds more runs with his legs than he loses.    That’s how BB-ref and BP both see it.    

I can’t really comment on his mental mistakes at SS, because I haven’t seen a ton.    And in my opinion, he’s really a 2B who can play SS in a pinch, but is playing SS more often than he should because of Martin’s offensive shortcomings.  

That's fair.  Agreed on his position being 2nd base.  And maybe I just see him at his worst at SS, but he seems to fall asleep at times and doesn't know what to do when they're in shifts - simple things like when to cover 2nd base.  With the O's pitching woes, they can't afford those kinds of mistakes.  At this point in his career, I don't expect improvement.  

[Roll Tide]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

But it’s not really that often.   His SB% is high (78%) and his other outs on the bases (like being thrown out trying to take an extra base) are pretty normal.     So, the way I see it, even if some of his caught stealings or other outs on the bases are the result of poor judgment, the bottom line is that he adds more runs with his legs than he loses.    That’s how BB-ref and BP both see it.    

I can’t really comment on his mental mistakes at SS, because I haven’t seen a ton.    And in my opinion, he’s really a 2B who can play SS in a pinch, but is playing SS more often than he should because of Martin’s offensive shortcomings.  

I’d like to see him at 2B next year, Hanser at 3B, and Nunez at DH, Mancini at 1B. Then have a SS that can really play SS. They can send Martin down until he’s ready to hit here. And of course Davis on the Pine.

[Roll Tide]

You know, I remember hearing Villar talk after a game back in July. He said they worked with him on his swing. I believe he said they made it more compact.

It seems to have really helped as his average went from the low .250s to the high .270s in a pretty short time considering he has a lot of at bats.

I think his OPS is now in the .800s

[thezeroes]

13 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

They can send Martin down until he’s ready to hit here

If the Orioles had a player in the minors that had improved their Batting Average and On Base Percentage by nearly 100 points for the last month we all would be clamoring for him to be called up yet when a player, overmatched for most of the season, is on a MLB team does it no accolades can be given.  I do not get the reasoning for this.

[Aglets]

9 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

If the Orioles had a player in the minors that had improved their Batting Average and On Base Percentage by nearly 100 points for the last month we all would be clamoring for him to be called up yet when a player, overmatched for most of the season, is on a MLB team does it no accolades can be given.  I do not get the reasoning for this.

His OBP has gone from the .230 range to the .250 range during that time.

His AVG has gone from a low point of .160 up to .198.

Yes that is improvement but I can't really say that it's enough to give me much optimism per se.

[Roll Tide]

15 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

If the Orioles had a player in the minors that had improved their Batting Average and On Base Percentage by nearly 100 points for the last month we all would be clamoring for him to be called up yet when a player, overmatched for most of the season, is on a MLB team does it no accolades can be given.  I do not get the reasoning for this.

I like a Villar before he made the adjustment. I think he’s valuable and should be extended. 

Some here just don’t like him.

Martin should be kept for now to clear the rule 5 tag. I honestly didn’t to expect him to hit this year. 

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

If the Orioles had a player in the minors that had improved their Batting Average and On Base Percentage by nearly 100 points for the last month we all would be clamoring for him to be called up yet when a player, overmatched for most of the season, is on a MLB team does it no accolades can be given.  I do not get the reasoning for this.

His OPS is .641 this month.    That’s his hot streak.   It’s better than what he did before, but still far short of good.    

I’ve also noticed that the O’s aren’t exposing him much to RHP.     He’s hot an equal number of PA against RHP/LHP, but more than 70% of all major league at bats are against RHP.    He’s got a .492 OPS vs. RHP.

Bottom line, he’s improved somewhat over the season but still needs to improve a lot more.

[Aristotelian]

8 minutes ago, Aglets said:

His OBP has gone from the .230 range to the .250 range during that time.

His AVG has gone from a low point of .160 up to .198.

Yes that is improvement but I can't really say that it's enough to give me much optimism per se.

.204 June

.233 July

.286 August

At least he is headed in the right direction.

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Villar is good.  And he'd be a good player on a team where he's not viewed as one of their best players.  Like if the Astros had an open 2nd base spot, Villar would be good for them.  

Unfortunately, the Orioles are filled with guys that would be good on better teams where their deficiencies are masked.  We've got a decent power guy like Renato Nunez with a .309 OBP.  That OBP would be alright if he was on a team surrounded by guys that got on base and he could jack one every so often.  Same with Hanser, he doesn't strike out but he doesn't walk, either.  

Villar gets on base at a decent enough, but not spectacular clip.  He's got some pop.  He can steal a base but also can run you right out of an inning by doing something incredibly boneheaded.  So while he's a good player and I'd like to keep him...dunno, it just doesn't make too much sense.  Then again, we don't have a 2B prospect knocking on the door.  

Viilar at SS next year and Alberto at 2B?

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Viilar at SS next year and Alberto at 2B?

I'm not sure how much I like Villar at SS from a defensive perspective.  But certainly better than Martin with the bat, we'd probably see an overall improvement from total value at that position if Villar was at SS.  Hanser at 2nd would be ok.  

Certainly not a middle infield that would be part of the future but it could be fun.