After a month of reflection, I still can’t believe how bad this team was

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm glad it happened.  No more of this crap about hovering around .500 for a season and trying to make a run at it.  No, be so f'ing terrible that no one can ignore it and you make the trades that are a year too late to detonate this thing and hopefully build properly.

I agree if they went 75-87, the Orioles would have tried to sign a few average free agents and tell the fans that they could compete for a wildcard.  No one is going to believe that a couple of free agent signings will turn a 47 win team into a playoff contender.  It's rebuild time.

[Matt Bennett]

The handful of starting pitching prospects progressing through the talents is keeping me going for sure. Ortiz, Kremer, Tate, Gray-Rod, Wells, Akin, Lowther, Baumann, etc. May not be hands down stud in there but serviceable starters can go a long way. I'm just hoping new management can develop these pitchers. Sometimes those serviceable pitchers break at the right time and 2014 happens. Chen, Tillman, Gonzalez, Norris, Gausman all had career years.

In the meantime, Go Skins! 1st place oh yeah

[clapdiddy]

4 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

The handful of starting pitching prospects progressing through the talents is keeping me going for sure. Ortiz, Kremer, Tate, Gray-Rod, Wells, Akin, Lowther, Baumann, etc. May not be hands down stud in there but serviceable starters can go a long way. I'm just hoping new management can develop these pitchers. Sometimes those serviceable pitchers break at the right time and 2014 happens. Chen, Tillman, Gonzalez, Norris, Gausman all had career years.

In the meantime, Go Skins! 1st place oh yeah

And you even left off the best pitching prospect...Hall!  

[atomic]

Buck should have been fired at the end of April.  Really keeping him the entire season probably ruined his legacy with the team and will prevent him from getting another managerial position.  If DD wasnt going to be here after 2018 he should have been replaced before the season. They should not have had that long period trying to trade Manny in the off season and then not do it and then act like they were trying to be competitive.  Most of the reasons for the 47 win season are on ownership.  

A 47 win season is hard to accept.  A good triple A team might win more than 47 games if they were in the MLB.  

[Frobby]

22 minutes ago, atomic said:

Buck should have been fired at the end of April.  Really keeping him the entire season probably ruined his legacy with the team and will prevent him from getting another managerial position.  If DD wasnt going to be here after 2018 he should have been replaced before the season. They should not have had that long period trying to trade Manny in the off season and then not do it and then act like they were trying to be competitive.  Most of the reasons for the 47 win season are on ownership.  

A 47 win season is hard to accept.  A good triple A team might win more than 47 games if they were in the MLB.  

Indeed, 47-48 wins is the very definition of a replacement level team.

https://www.fangraphs.com/library/misc/war/replacement-level/

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained.shtml

[Legend_Of_Joey]

While the season as a whole was disappointing, there were a lot of positives to look at for a couple of players.

Jonathan Villar: Imagine having him for a whole season. Brought an element of speed and power to the club after the trade, mainly the speed. Always a threat to steal when on and his presence seemed to wake up everyone else’s legs. Question will be: second or shortstop?

Renato Nunez: The bat was as advertised (could still use a little work, but the ball JUMPS off the bat), but his defense was much better as the season went on. Working with Bobby Dickerson worked wonders for Nunez. Could still be replaced at third, but he looked promising for the meantime.

Steve Wilkerson: A suspension and then injuries derailed his season. During his short time, we all got a great look at his glove for utility work. Such iconic moments: The dive at 3^rd against the Nationals, the charge and throw to first to keep the game tied against the Braves, the dive, spin, and throw from the ground to end the game against the Astros, the range into center with the over the shoulder catch infront of a diving Mullins…You get the point. His bat was starting to heat up when an oblique injury sidelined him, then a hamstring injury during his rehab assignment compounded things.

Breyvic Valera: Better than a lot of people thought he would be. Good contact and good defense before an injury toward the end of the season took him out. A lot to look forward to with him in the lineup and on the diamond.

Austin Wynns: Even as big a fan of his as I am, I was not expecting a near .250 average in the majors. Got a lot of praise from pitchers (especially Cobb) and got a lot of credit for Cobb getting the complete game shutout against Cleveland. Only catcher in the MLB to catch Jackie Bradley Jr. attempting to steal during the regular season. Had an 8 game hitting streak and hits in 6 of his last 7 games. Had a few rough times on defense though. Didn’t seem overmatched though.

D.J. Stewart: Exceeded quite a few expectations, albeit in a short seasonal split. His contact seemed to be a lot better and his 2 home runs were good to have. A memorable “off the pole” shot at home, then a “no doubter” in the Bronx. Defense didn’t get tested that much, but his hitting showed promise.

Paul Fry: In 11 of his first 13 appearances, he did not allow an earned run. Got his first win on the last game of the season. Was called in for a lot of “high leverage” situations and for the most part, did what he needed to get out of trouble. Was used more than as a “situational” guy, whether by need or circumstance. May have hit the wall towards the end of the season, which is when he started to slump a bit. A full season in Baltimore for him could provide useful.

Sean Gilmartin: Aside from one little 3 run hiccup against the Rays, he filled in nicely in extended relief. Even gave the Orioles an option for an emergency left handed starter. Surprised more people with his stuff than expected. Between him, Fry, Bleier, and Scott, there are 4 good lefties in the pen.

While these guys and their situations may not blow you away, a lot of them were impressive in a short time (Stewart, Wilkerson on defense, Gilmartin), exceeded expectations (Wynns with his batting, Nunez on defense, Fry overall), or reclaimed some glory (Villar.)

I didn’t include Mullins because he still has a lot of question marks, but he could be a big bright spot too.

[Chromehill]

12 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I agree if they went 75-87, the Orioles would have tried to sign a few average free agents and tell the fans that they could compete for a wildcard.  No one is going to believe that a couple of free agent signings will turn a 47 win team into a playoff contender.  It's rebuild time.

Well said.  When you finish 26 games behind Toronto and 4th place in the division and 11 games behind Kansas City who had the second worst record, it cannot be ignored.  There is no patching or quick fix attempts.  Even though the season was horrible, it might be very good for the franchise in the long run, it should force an overhaul of the franchise and bring modern management techniques to the Orioles.  At least we can hope. 

[bobmc]

13 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I already picked up a couple hats.

Represent

 

[Going Underground]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

Indeed, 47-48 wins is the very definition of a replacement level team.

https://www.fangraphs.com/library/misc/war/replacement-level/

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained.shtml

Whatever happened started last year. 7-21 from September 1,2017 to the end of last season. One wining month since April 2017. This year did not win in double digits in any month. 

[wildcard]

6 hours ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

While the season as a whole was disappointing, there were a lot of positives to look at for a couple of players.

 

Jonathan Villar: Imagine having him for a whole season. Brought an element of speed and power to the club after the trade, mainly the speed. Always a threat to steal when on and his presence seemed to wake up everyone else’s legs. Question will be: second or shortstop?

 

Renato Nunez: The bat was as advertised (could still use a little work, but the ball JUMPS off the bat), but his defense was much better as the season went on. Working with Bobby Dickerson worked wonders for Nunez. Could still be replaced at third, but he looked promising for the meantime.

 

Steve Wilkerson: A suspension and then injuries derailed his season. During his short time, we all got a great look at his glove for utility work. Such iconic moments: The dive at 3^rd against the Nationals, the charge and throw to first to keep the game tied against the Braves, the dive, spin, and throw from the ground to end the game against the Astros, the range into center with the over the shoulder catch infront of a diving Mullins…You get the point. His bat was starting to heat up when an oblique injury sidelined him, then a hamstring injury during his rehab assignment compounded things.

 

Breyvic Valera: Better than a lot of people thought he would be. Good contact and good defense before an injury toward the end of the season took him out. A lot to look forward to with him in the lineup and on the diamond.

 

Austin Wynns: Even as big a fan of his as I am, I was not expecting a near .250 average in the majors. Got a lot of praise from pitchers (especially Cobb) and got a lot of credit for Cobb getting the complete game shutout against Cleveland. Only catcher in the MLB to catch Jackie Bradley Jr. attempting to steal during the regular season. Had an 8 game hitting streak and hits in 6 of his last 7 games. Had a few rough times on defense though. Didn’t seem overmatched though.

 

D.J. Stewart: Exceeded quite a few expectations, albeit in a short seasonal split. His contact seemed to be a lot better and his 2 home runs were good to have. A memorable “off the pole” shot at home, then a “no doubter” in the Bronx. Defense didn’t get tested that much, but his hitting showed promise.

 

Paul Fry: In 11 of his first 13 appearances, he did not allow an earned run. Got his first win on the last game of the season. Was called in for a lot of “high leverage” situations and for the most part, did what he needed to get out of trouble. Was used more than as a “situational” guy, whether by need or circumstance. May have hit the wall towards the end of the season, which is when he started to slump a bit. A full season in Baltimore for him could provide useful.

 

Sean Gilmartin: Aside from one little 3 run hiccup against the Rays, he filled in nicely in extended relief. Even gave the Orioles an option for an emergency left handed starter. Surprised more people with his stuff than expected. Between him, Fry, Bleier, and Scott, there are 4 good lefties in the pen.

 

While these guys and their situations may not blow you away, a lot of them were impressive in a short time (Stewart, Wilkerson on defense, Gilmartin), exceeded expectations (Wynns with his batting, Nunez on defense, Fry overall), or reclaimed some glory (Villar.)

 

I didn’t include Mullins because he still has a lot of question marks, but he could be a big bright spot too.

 

Nice post.   There are some individuals to watch next season.   I'll be  watching.

[atomic]

6 hours ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

While the season as a whole was disappointing, there were a lot of positives to look at for a couple of players.

 

Jonathan Villar: Imagine having him for a whole season. Brought an element of speed and power to the club after the trade, mainly the speed. Always a threat to steal when on and his presence seemed to wake up everyone else’s legs. Question will be: second or shortstop?

 

Renato Nunez: The bat was as advertised (could still use a little work, but the ball JUMPS off the bat), but his defense was much better as the season went on. Working with Bobby Dickerson worked wonders for Nunez. Could still be replaced at third, but he looked promising for the meantime.

 

Steve Wilkerson: A suspension and then injuries derailed his season. During his short time, we all got a great look at his glove for utility work. Such iconic moments: The dive at 3^rd against the Nationals, the charge and throw to first to keep the game tied against the Braves, the dive, spin, and throw from the ground to end the game against the Astros, the range into center with the over the shoulder catch infront of a diving Mullins…You get the point. His bat was starting to heat up when an oblique injury sidelined him, then a hamstring injury during his rehab assignment compounded things.

 

Breyvic Valera: Better than a lot of people thought he would be. Good contact and good defense before an injury toward the end of the season took him out. A lot to look forward to with him in the lineup and on the diamond.

 

Austin Wynns: Even as big a fan of his as I am, I was not expecting a near .250 average in the majors. Got a lot of praise from pitchers (especially Cobb) and got a lot of credit for Cobb getting the complete game shutout against Cleveland. Only catcher in the MLB to catch Jackie Bradley Jr. attempting to steal during the regular season. Had an 8 game hitting streak and hits in 6 of his last 7 games. Had a few rough times on defense though. Didn’t seem overmatched though.

 

D.J. Stewart: Exceeded quite a few expectations, albeit in a short seasonal split. His contact seemed to be a lot better and his 2 home runs were good to have. A memorable “off the pole” shot at home, then a “no doubter” in the Bronx. Defense didn’t get tested that much, but his hitting showed promise.

 

Paul Fry: In 11 of his first 13 appearances, he did not allow an earned run. Got his first win on the last game of the season. Was called in for a lot of “high leverage” situations and for the most part, did what he needed to get out of trouble. Was used more than as a “situational” guy, whether by need or circumstance. May have hit the wall towards the end of the season, which is when he started to slump a bit. A full season in Baltimore for him could provide useful.

 

Sean Gilmartin: Aside from one little 3 run hiccup against the Rays, he filled in nicely in extended relief. Even gave the Orioles an option for an emergency left handed starter. Surprised more people with his stuff than expected. Between him, Fry, Bleier, and Scott, there are 4 good lefties in the pen.

 

While these guys and their situations may not blow you away, a lot of them were impressive in a short time (Stewart, Wilkerson on defense, Gilmartin), exceeded expectations (Wynns with his batting, Nunez on defense, Fry overall), or reclaimed some glory (Villar.)

 

I didn’t include Mullins because he still has a lot of question marks, but he could be a big bright spot too.

 

I am not sure how you get bright spots out of some of these guys.  Wilkerson and Valera will turn 27 in a few days and haven't shown anything yet.  I suppose Wilkerson's .174 average last year and an OPS in the 400's.  Wilkerson made some bad defensive plays as well. Terrible ones.  I guess some people are eternal optimists. 

Wynns is going to turn 28 in a few days and he couldn't hit in Norfolk. 

Really your post actually shows how bleak things are.  Trying to polish turds. 

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, atomic said:

I am not sure how you get bright spots out of some of these guys.  Wilkerson and Valera will turn 27 in a few days and haven't shown anything yet.  I suppose Wilkerson's .174 average last year and an OPS in the 400's.  Wilkerson made some bad defensive plays as well. Terrible ones.  I guess some people are eternal optimists. 

Wynns is going to turn 28 in a few days and he couldn't hit in Norfolk. 

Really your post actually shows how bleak things are.  Trying to polish turds. 

I wouldn’t put it that strongly, but who on this list is a potential core guy on a winning major league team?   Maybe Villar could be, on the right team.    The rest are second division regulars or relievers, or worse.    

[wildcard]

43 minutes ago, atomic said:

I am not sure how you get bright spots out of some of these guys.  Wilkerson and Valera will turn 27 in a few days and haven't shown anything yet.  I suppose Wilkerson's .174 average last year and an OPS in the 400's.  Wilkerson made some bad defensive plays as well. Terrible ones.  I guess some people are eternal optimists. 

Wynns is going to turn 28 in a few days and he couldn't hit in Norfolk. 

Really your post actually shows how bleak things are.  Trying to polish turds. 

Wilkerson and Valera are possible utility guys with options.  They should be useful.  Both have had some defensive and offensive good experience in the minors.  

Wynn - A catcher being 28 is not necessarily a bad thing.  It take lot of experience to be a good catcher.  Wynn has a good arm and pitchers love to throw to him.  He has shown some ability to hit for a high OBP in the minors.   I think he goes into 2019 as the odds on favorite to be the O's #1 catcher.

This is the list of first year guys that showed something in 2018.  Its not the list of guys with the highest potential to be core players in the future.

[wildcard]

42 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I wouldn’t put it that strongly, but who on this list is a potential core guy on a winning major league team?   Maybe Villar could be, on the right team.    The rest are second division regulars or relievers, or worse.    

If you are looks for core guys than you have to look at Hays, Diaz, Mullins, McKenna, Nunez, Villar, Mancini, Wynns on the position .   Cobb, Bundy, Hess, Akin, Givens, Fry, Castro, Scott, Kline,  Bleier, Yacabonis, Harvey,  Carroll, Tate,  Ortiz,  and Ramirez.

[Grt 2BA FL Gator]

16 hours ago, vatech1994 said:

I’ve got to be honest with all of you.  They have pretty much broken me.  I will always be an Orioles’ fan and I’ll never follow another team, but I just can’t get that excited about them anymore.  I totally agree with Frobby about Buck.  I love the guy but he was simply awful this season and pretty clearly mailed it in early.  The only option was to clean house and I agree with Tony that, even allowing for prior seasons where they just let contracts expire, I’m amazed they did nothing during the season if they knew DD & Buck were gone anyway.

I will still follow along loosely and watch along at times, but I just don’t ever see myself getting the passion back.  Maybe I’m wrong, but I just don’t feel it.

This is largely how I feel. I have my hats and my gear that I will still rep down here in Florida. But I've got no feels right now. 

I am hopeful that if they make some of the organizational changes Duquette talked about and we get a competent person making decisions, I could be back in the fold as early as next year. 

But right now it's so deflating. And if it looks and smells at all like more of the same BS from the last 30 years, I don't know that I will follow closely unless we luck into a 2012-2016 type run in 5 years. 

And even then, I'll be guarded about it. I need a person making baseball decisions that can take the organization in a new direction. I need to see a lot of evidence that the sons are going to run things differently (I don't think it's a great start at the moment, albeit it's very early).

Without those things, I think I'm done watching regularly and I certainly won't be following the rebuild closely.