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Brewers non-tender Schoop.

oriolediehard

By oriolediehard
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Aglets Hangout Grand Counsel

Aglets

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Orioles just better make sure that if we do decide to pursue Schoop they wait until after FanFest next month.

Might be pretty awkward if he has to invent another excuse to miss it.

For the record I strongly doubt Elias brings him back here.......nor do I really think he should.

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bpilktree Hangout Grand Counsel

bpilktree

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1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

The Brewers GM straight up said that it was a bad move on his part.  

I like Schoop, but I'd pass.  Low OBP, he's the type of guy we're trying to get away from.  

Who said that?  I haven't heard Elias say that maybe the fans want that to be true but that doesn't mean it is true.  The Astros had a collection of guys with high obp with Bregman and Altuve but they also brought in guys with low OBP as well.  One of their biggest free agent acquisitions for their run in 2017 was Josh Reddick and he was not a high obp guy.  They traded for guys like Evan Gattis who is not a high OBP guy and brought in guys like McCann who isn't one either.  I have seen number of people say that we will be going for the OBP type guys now but if you look at the Astros the guys they brought from outside the organization were average to below average OBP guys.  I think a lot of people are not misrepresenting what analytics really is.  Now Schoop may not fit in to what Elias looks at a player and the Astros mold and it might not be the time to bring a guy like him in but people need to stop think we will just look for high OBP guys they had a mix of both.  

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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11 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

Who said that?  I haven't heard Elias say that maybe the fans want that to be true but that doesn't mean it is true.  The Astros had a collection of guys with high obp with Bregman and Altuve but they also brought in guys with low OBP as well.  One of their biggest free agent acquisitions for their run in 2017 was Josh Reddick and he was not a high obp guy.  They traded for guys like Evan Gattis who is not a high OBP guy and brought in guys like McCann who isn't one either.  I have seen number of people say that we will be going for the OBP type guys now but if you look at the Astros the guys they brought from outside the organization were average to below average OBP guys.  I think a lot of people are not misrepresenting what analytics really is.  Now Schoop may not fit in to what Elias looks at a player and the Astros mold and it might not be the time to bring a guy like him in but people need to stop think we will just look for high OBP guys they had a mix of both.  

Good points, but we don't have any of the high OBP guys.  And I'm not sure Schoop is a good enough defender to offset the bad OBP and questionable pitch selection skills.  IIRC, Reddick's defense is pretty damn stout.  

Either way, we can do better.

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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

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14 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

Who said that?  I haven't heard Elias say that maybe the fans want that to be true but that doesn't mean it is true.  The Astros had a collection of guys with high obp with Bregman and Altuve but they also brought in guys with low OBP as well.  One of their biggest free agent acquisitions for their run in 2017 was Josh Reddick and he was not a high obp guy.  They traded for guys like Evan Gattis who is not a high OBP guy and brought in guys like McCann who isn't one either.  I have seen number of people say that we will be going for the OBP type guys now but if you look at the Astros the guys they brought from outside the organization were average to below average OBP guys.  I think a lot of people are not misrepresenting what analytics really is.  Now Schoop may not fit in to what Elias looks at a player and the Astros mold and it might not be the time to bring a guy like him in but people need to stop think we will just look for high OBP guys they had a mix of both.  

Do you even check the stats before you claim things. Reddick has career .323 OBP and McCann .338.  Schoop OBP is .294.  

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

The Brewers GM straight up said that it was a bad move on his part.  

I like Schoop, but I'd pass.  Low OBP, he's the type of guy we're trying to get away from.  

Schoop is a much better player than he showed in Milwaukee.    I understand why their GM feels he made a mistake.    I still think the next team to sign Schoop may get quite a bargain.   I don’t think he makes sense for the O’s right now, but for a contending team with a weakness at 2B (e.g. the Dodgers) he could make a lot of sense.  

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interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

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2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Schoop is a much better player than he showed in Milwaukee.    I understand why their GM feels he made a mistake.    I still think the next team to sign Schoop may get quite a bargain.   I don’t think he makes sense for the O’s right now, but for a contending team with a weakness at 2B (e.g. the Dodgers) he could make a lot of sense.  

Sure, but I feel like everyone is forgetting how much he fell off defensively last year. Kind of a concrete glove at times, even. Lot of balls clanking off his glove, or ones he just didn't get to. The arm is fine, though.

I agree he'll bounce back in both areas, but that's probably for someone else to figure out at this point. 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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3 minutes ago, interloper said:

Sure, but I feel like everyone is forgetting how much he fell off defensively last year. Kind of a concrete glove at times, even. Lot of balls clanking off his glove, or ones he just didn't get to. The arm is fine, though.

I agree he'll bounce back in both areas, but that's probably for someone else to figure out at this point. 

I will be the first to admit that I pretty much stopped watching the O’s sometime in May, so I don’t have much personal basis to judge how Schoop’s defense was.   The advanced metrics have him just a smidge above average, despite making some errors.    

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

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1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I will be the first to admit that I pretty much stopped watching the O’s sometime in May, so I don’t have much personal basis to judge how Schoop’s defense was.   The advanced metrics have him just a smidge above average, despite making some errors.    

You have seen him enough to know that he is slow, has poor range, and maybe average hands. He makes up for quite a lot of weaknesses with a strong arm, but I would expect his weaknesses to become even more pronounced with age. I would not sign him long term as our future 2B. 3B would be a possibility, but I am just sick of trying to stretch guys into positions they can't really play.

 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

You have seen him enough to know that he is slow, has poor range, and maybe average hands. He makes up for quite a lot of weaknesses with a strong arm, but I would expect his weaknesses to become even more pronounced with age. I would not sign him long term as our future 2B. 3B would be a possibility, but I am just sick of trying to stretch guys into positions they can't really play.

 

Is anyone suggesting a long term deal?

The most I've seen suggested is two years.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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2 hours ago, oriole said:

Wouldn’t a Schoop/Villar tandem up the middle be a funny sight? The guy we traded for playing alongside the guy we traded. I’m not against the idea but I doubt Schoop will want to come back to Baltimore unless no where else will take him.

If Schoop fell to the O's he should play 3B not 2B.

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interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

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8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't expect Schoop to fall to the O's.   But if he did then he is better than Nunez.  I'd put him at 3B. 

Is he though? In his first extended look at the ML level last season, Nunez hit 8 bombs and got on base at .322 in 261 PA at age 24. Good for 1.2 WAR after coming to Baltimore. Small sample, but he hung in there pretty well. Certainly capable of being a 20-hr guy. 

Schoop is a more impact player, perhaps, definitely a higher ceiling. But he only had an OBP remotely close when he had his career year in 2017. I don't know that you can say Schoop would be a better 3B than Nunez. We haven't seen enough of Schoop at 3B. 

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Is he though? In his first extended look at the ML level last season, Nunez hit 8 bombs and got on base at .322 in 261 PA at age 24. Good for 1.2 WAR after coming to Baltimore. Small sample, but he hung in there pretty well. 

Schoop is a more impact player, perhaps, definitely a higher ceiling. But he only had an OBP remotely close when he had his career year in 2017. I don't know that you can say Schoop would be a better 3B than Nunez. We haven't seen enough of Schoop at 3B. 

Yes he had a down year, but lets not be ridiculous. Schoop is definitely a better player than Nunez. Small sample sizes from no names prospects don't carry much weight with me. 

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